Dev / Open Source – Github

My latest hobby and favorite home printer. Started October 1, 2024, already used 5 rolls of filament. The eventual material cost @ $16/spool ended up costing more than the printer that was on sale at Microcenter for $50 (great deal ikr :)) I will compile a list of my favorite prints.

https://youtu.be/h7Dc5m4C8P8

at 48 minutes in they talk about a book named “World in Peril” that describes everything I’ve written about in my 2010 notebook “World in Peril”. I will have to scan it, since its written in pencil, and upload it next…
Its about the geomagnetic cycles and we are in the midst of it.

This is the entire transcript:

00:00:14 man-made climate change as I sit here
00:00:16 right now looking out the window of the
00:00:18 studio we’re in a blizzard it’s not
00:00:20 really a blizzard it’s a it’s snow it’s
00:00:22 just regular snow I got to be honest but
00:00:24 they’ve declared a state of emergency in
00:00:26 West Virginia because when you live up
00:00:27 in the mountains it’s hard to plow roads
00:00:30 so people are going to be slipping
00:00:31 sliding sliding down those mountains but
00:00:34 this is the end of a snow drought we
00:00:37 haven’t had snow I we had a little bit
00:00:39 of snow this year but this is the first
00:00:41 time in like two years we uh uh last
00:00:43 year we had none whatsoever and of
00:00:45 course whenever there’s an anomaly in
00:00:46 the weather people say things like this
00:00:48 proves climate change be it it’s too hot
00:00:50 out it’s too cold out whatever it is
00:00:52 that justifies their their claims which
00:00:55 reminds me of that joke from It’s Always
00:00:56 Sunny in Philadelphia I don’t know if
00:00:58 you guys watch this where it’s a great
00:01:00 show by the way but if you don’t know
00:01:01 two of the characters are taking
00:01:02 supplements a ton of supplements and
00:01:05 then one guy’s like I keep going to the
00:01:07 bathroom and he goes yeah well that’s
00:01:08 because your body’s flushing the toxins
00:01:10 me I’m not going to the bathroom at all
00:01:11 because my body’s working at Peak
00:01:12 efficiency my point being for those that
00:01:14 are just like what the hell you talking
00:01:15 about whenever anything happens for some
00:01:18 reason it proves what they’re saying
00:01:20 about climate change well we’re going to
00:01:21 talk about this we’re going to talk
00:01:23 about a lot of other things because
00:01:24 there’s interesting stff to talk about
00:01:26 as it pertains to the ancient world and
00:01:28 evidence of the shifting water bodies
00:01:31 where uh the Sahara for instance once
00:01:33 may have been underwater or portions of
00:01:35 it we’ll talk about that we’ll talk
00:01:36 about Egypt I’ve heard that perhaps the
00:01:38 Sphinx may have been underwater at some
00:01:39 point so we got a couple of guys hanging
00:01:41 out with us uh who wants to go first
00:01:44 sure I’ll go first who are you what are
00:01:45 you do I am Ben Davidson I run the
00:01:47 suspicious observers YouTube channel I
00:01:49 am Sun weatherman on X formerly Twitter
00:01:53 I am an expert in solar cycles
00:01:55 geophysics and most importantly probably
00:01:57 for what we’re going to be talking about
00:01:59 today Earth Earth’s magnetic pole shift
00:02:00 in the great disaster cycle of our
00:02:02 planet so is the pole shift happening
00:02:04 now yeah oh boy that’s going to be
00:02:06 exciting all right and next up I’m Jimmy
00:02:09 coretti I have a YouTube and Rumble
00:02:11 Channel called bright Insight I discuss
00:02:13 the various mysteries of lost ancient
00:02:14 civilizations cycles of catastrophe on
00:02:16 Earth and various conspiracies and I’m
00:02:19 thrilled to be here again with you all
00:02:20 yeah we did a show on your channel a
00:02:21 couple weeks ago a week ago I guess at
00:02:23 this point we sure did people were
00:02:25 loving it that was wild we dive deep
00:02:26 into some uh pretty wild stuff yeah and
00:02:28 it was remote so it’s nice to in person
00:02:31 great to meet you dude oh jeez so these
00:02:33 solar Cycles well we got Kell over here
00:02:35 up moving around right now so he’s not
00:02:37 going to introduce himself yet how of
00:02:38 how long do they take how long does a
00:02:40 pole shift take um well you know in
00:02:43 terms of when they first start moving it
00:02:46 can you know be a process of a 100 200
00:02:49 years but once they really start going
00:02:51 you’re talking about a couple of decades
00:02:53 and it really started going in it’s hard
00:02:55 to tell exactly but somewhere between
00:02:57 the 1990s and the first decade of this
00:02:59 Millennium and So based on the math it’s
00:03:04 looking like either late 2030s or
00:03:07 2040s presuming any of us are still here
00:03:09 after the stupidity that the people in
00:03:11 charge of this planet seem to be pulling
00:03:13 on us uh it’s going to get very very
00:03:15 rough pull the mic up and keep it close
00:03:17 sure uh so let’s let’s we’ll start from
00:03:19 the beginning uh the the the obvious
00:03:21 doorway into all of this because they
00:03:24 don’t shut up about it is climate change
00:03:25 correct there’s you actually have gret
00:03:28 tunberg has ad ated for shutting down
00:03:31 all fossil fuels not in 2030 but now uh
00:03:35 of course that would mean we all die yes
00:03:37 uh okay you know to be honest I think
00:03:39 I’d be okay I would not be comfortable
00:03:42 but I wouldn’t die and I’m not going to
00:03:44 sit here and pretend that I’m survivor
00:03:45 man who’s going to be able to build a
00:03:46 mud hut and you know create a furnace
00:03:48 and learn any of that stuff but uh I’ll
00:03:50 live and uh rather uncomfortably but
00:03:52 mostly because I have chickens now uh
00:03:55 kidding aside the average person living
00:03:56 in a city if fossil fuels were cut off
00:03:58 today you were going to starve they’re
00:04:01 going to die of dehydration they’re
00:04:02 going to start murdering each other
00:04:04 eating each other it it people don’t
00:04:07 understand that we have built this world
00:04:10 off of the explosion of energy from
00:04:12 fossil fuels and if you look at a city
00:04:14 like New York it’s so difficult to bring
00:04:17 food into a place like this because of
00:04:18 how dense it is with people that if we
00:04:21 were to cut off fuels people will freeze
00:04:22 to death the the obvious one we often
00:04:24 bring up diabetics will die because you
00:04:26 have to refrigerate insulin people will
00:04:28 uh die of the heat in the summer you
00:04:31 will see I think the estimate is around
00:04:33 60 million people die within 3 to seven
00:04:35 days if you were to cut off fossil fuels
00:04:37 instantly around the world right so a
00:04:39 lot of people rely on this energy for
00:04:41 transporting food for uh uh I mean we
00:04:43 need electricity to run our our our
00:04:45 water pumps in cities and things like
00:04:47 this but that’s what they want to do
00:04:48 they say because of climate change we
00:04:50 got to shut down all fossil fuels what
00:04:52 is your view on climate change and
00:04:55 what’s causing
00:04:56 it I would have to say the number one
00:04:58 thing that is causing what’s happening
00:05:00 right now is the fact that Earth’s
00:05:01 magnetic field is changing we have a
00:05:03 magnetic shield around our entire planet
00:05:06 that protects us from dangerous energy
00:05:08 from the Sun from Supernova from cosmic
00:05:10 rays and it has been weakening more and
00:05:13 more and more we’re probably 20 to 25%
00:05:15 down in the magnetic field strength that
00:05:17 this planet had enjoyed and endured for
00:05:20 several thousand years and basically
00:05:24 what that means is more energy from
00:05:26 space is coming into the Earth and
00:05:29 there’s simply no getting around that
00:05:31 and what’s interesting is you know those
00:05:32 mainstream folks who talk about climate
00:05:35 change they will throw all kinds of
00:05:36 papers at you here there I made a
00:05:38 challenge to several professors several
00:05:40 people at Nasa and to the internet as a
00:05:42 whole a couple of years ago find me the
00:05:44 scientific study that blames humans for
00:05:48 modern climate change but also takes
00:05:50 into account things like solar flares
00:05:53 things like geomagnetic storms you know
00:05:56 the Aurora you’ve got a beautiful
00:05:57 picture of them over there or weakening
00:05:59 of Earth’s magnetic field and nobody can
00:06:01 do it nobody’s done it and I I made the
00:06:04 the challenge kind of inappropriately
00:06:07 because I knew nobody was going to be
00:06:09 able to do it because such a study has
00:06:10 never been done they don’t fund those
00:06:12 kind of things you can’t get a grant to
00:06:14 study Earth’s magnetic field and how
00:06:16 it’s weakening and the effect this has
00:06:17 on the climate so I pulled up this year
00:06:19 uh diagram of how the Aurora Borealis in
00:06:22 Australia was it Australis what is it
00:06:24 Aurora Australis how they how they work
00:06:26 I actually was just in
00:06:28 Fairbanks and we’re really excited
00:06:30 because Fairbanks is basically the
00:06:32 direct path of the Aurora it’s like
00:06:34 right in the middle and so uh at we were
00:06:37 hoping we’re going to see it we are
00:06:38 walking out of the airport it’s minus 28
00:06:41 and as we’re trying to open the car
00:06:43 which is frozen I’m like oh hey look
00:06:44 there’s a ro B house right above us it
00:06:46 was massive very bright it was super
00:06:49 cool to see but this is basically how it
00:06:50 works we have a magnetic Shield you have
00:06:52 the auroral oval right there that’s
00:06:54 where uh it all comes in can we pull
00:06:56 that up and basically as solar wind is
00:06:58 blasting the Planet all of this these
00:07:01 particles radiation Etc being deflected
00:07:02 by the mag magnetic Shield but certain
00:07:04 ports can’t Parts can penetrate through
00:07:06 hitting the poles and then you end up
00:07:08 with the auroras correct so what will
00:07:11 happen if the magnetic Shield of this
00:07:13 planet is gone is that is that a that’s
00:07:16 not possible Right it it doesn’t
00:07:17 disappear entirely but it goes down to
00:07:19 such a weak level that even around an
00:07:23 area that is normally well protected
00:07:25 like the tropics you still have an
00:07:27 enormous amount of soul and Cosmic
00:07:30 radiation that is penetrating and some
00:07:33 of that energy gets absorbed in the
00:07:34 atmosphere some of it penetrates the
00:07:36 crust and goes down into the mantle
00:07:38 where it excites silica Rich magma um
00:07:41 there’s evidence of major volcanic
00:07:43 upticks during every one of these
00:07:45 geomagnetic pole shifts uh and things
00:07:47 like that and as well as the the climate
00:07:49 changes and some of the best papers and
00:07:52 best geophysicists in the world are
00:07:54 really starting to tie major Extinction
00:07:56 events to these geomagnetic pole shifts
00:07:59 a lot of the reason is because this
00:08:01 energy takes out the ozone this energy
00:08:05 really changes the jet streams it screws
00:08:07 with the monsoon it creates extreme
00:08:10 temperature shifts extreme tropical
00:08:12 storms not to mention the fact that it’s
00:08:14 extra radiation bombarding us and
00:08:16 whether you’re you’re a mouse or a human
00:08:19 that matters yeah and one thing that
00:08:21 people need to understand is that this
00:08:22 is mainstream science there have been
00:08:24 several hundred known geomagnetic pole
00:08:26 shifts in the last few million years
00:08:28 that we’re aware of it’s measurable and
00:08:30 it’s accelerating for example in the
00:08:31 1980s the North Pole was shifting at
00:08:33 something like 7 m per year uh just up
00:08:36 to 10 years ago it was 30 mil and now
00:08:38 it’s at like 38 miles a year correct me
00:08:40 if these numbers are off but it is
00:08:41 accelerating and that’s what the data
00:08:43 shows is that it starts slowly the
00:08:45 mainstream science will say it’s over
00:08:46 you know SE several you know tens of
00:08:48 thousands of years is is is the process
00:08:50 but when it finally does do its actual
00:08:52 flip it’s quite quick um and what’s
00:08:54 interesting is that when we’re talking
00:08:56 about cycles of extinction level events
00:08:59 there’s I could show you a mainstream
00:09:00 scientific paper that’s published by the
00:09:02 Journal of Science and it’s even
00:09:04 republished on get this the nih.gov
00:09:07 website that talks about the Excursion
00:09:10 of 41,000 years ago tying into a mass
00:09:13 extinction level event so if you I I
00:09:16 just Googled this uh howstuffworks.com
00:09:18 Earth’s magnetic north pole has rapidly
00:09:20 shifted in the past 40 years I mean this
00:09:22 is actually I would call it um commonly
00:09:25 accepted that the shifts the poll the
00:09:27 polls shift and all that do you think
00:09:29 that uh so so what I’ve been told in the
00:09:31 past is once the poles start to move
00:09:34 it’s just a flip is that true like it it
00:09:37 will hit that Tipping Point but it does
00:09:40 sort of tip slowly and then accelerate
00:09:42 accelerate and then a snap whether that
00:09:44 snap you know exactly when that’s going
00:09:46 to be that is a difficult thing to Peg
00:09:48 down um all we can do is know that these
00:09:51 things happen on a fairly regular cycle
00:09:54 um every 12,000 years there’s a major
00:09:57 one of these that they like to call
00:09:59 geomagnetic Excursion and then on the
00:10:01 half cycles of that every 6,000 years
00:10:04 there’s a mini Excursion the last mini
00:10:06 Excursion was 6,000 years ago the last
00:10:08 major one was called the gothenberg
00:10:09 event 12,000 years ago the one 24,000
00:10:12 years ago was called Lake Mon 00:10:14 Lake before that lamp before that Vos 00:10:17 talk before that Toba before that and so 00:10:19 we are not only directly on time for the 00:10:23 next one to be occurring whether you 00:10:25 look at the last minicycle which was 00:10:26 6,000 years ago or the last full cycle 00:10:28 12 12,000 years 00:10:30 ago not only are we right on time but 00:10:33 the magnetic poles are shifting and the 00:10:35 magnetic field is weakening exactly as 00:10:37 one would expect during this time so 00:10:40 does this mean we are facing an 00:10:42 extinction level event and if so what 00:10:44 product can I sell to get rich off of it 00:10:46 uh I don’t know about the the second one 00:10:48 but um you know I one of the things I do 00:10:51 is I put together all the scientific 00:10:52 articles on exactly how dangerous these 00:10:54 things are there have been a couple good 00:10:56 ones in the last couple of years but the 00:10:57 one that is controlling by far uh it’s 00:11:00 by two geophysicists named Channel and 00:11:03 vigot and it was published in reviews of 00:11:05 geophysics which is widely accepted to 00:11:07 be the number one geophysics journal in 00:11:09 the world and it basically tracked not 00:11:12 only how well major extinctions are tied 00:11:15 to these geomagnetic excursions but they 00:11:18 show where on the earth is getting hit 00:11:21 the hardest but what what does that mean 00:11:24 for a regular person right now if if if 00:11:27 we get a mini Excursion or or whatever 00:11:29 it basically means that what anybody has 00:11:33 perceived as climate change is chump 00:11:35 change compared to what’s going to 00:11:36 happen the like Day After Tomorrow level 00:11:38 you’re going to freeze to death day 00:11:40 after tomorrow type stuff um and believe 00:11:43 it or not there is a very good chance 00:11:45 that the Earth is going to do a 90° tilt 00:11:48 there’s wait wait so so that means 00:11:51 like Antarctica could melt no look 00:11:56 there’s still glaciers in the tropics 00:11:58 today in Africa in Indonesia really if 00:12:01 you Google tropical glaciers you’re 00:12:03 going to find a bunch of them this blew 00:12:04 my mind this morning when we’re talking 00:12:05 about this over breakfast so um wow the 00:12:09 uh no joke and so what you have to 00:12:11 realize the last 12,000 years has been 00:12:14 very warm it’s been what’s called an 00:12:15 interglacial cycle as opposed to a 00:12:17 glacial cycle so it’s been warmer the 00:12:19 last 12,000 years look at this if after 00:12:22 12,000 years of a warm interglacial 00:12:24 cycle we still have glaciers in the 00:12:25 tropics back previous cycles and in a 00:12:28 glacial cycle you could throw Antarctica 00:12:30 to the equator and leave it there for 00:12:31 12,000 years it’s not going to melt away 00:12:33 wow so listen to this there’s got to be 00:12:34 a little bit of melting I mean a little 00:12:35 bit of course yes but also I mean have 00:12:38 you ever seen an iceberg calving or 00:12:41 something like that and how much fog and 00:12:43 and stuff comes out Antarctica would be 00:12:45 shrouded in fog which would I don’t know 00:12:47 if you guys know the concept of of albo 00:12:49 how clouds ice things like that they 00:12:51 bounce sunlight off and actually don’t 00:12:53 let it come in and penetrate yeah 00:12:56 there’ll be a little bit of melting but 00:12:57 it’ll also be shrouded and fog which 00:12:59 will protect it for hor actually this is 00:13:01 really interesting the other day uh we 00:13:03 got snow earlier this week and the next 00:13:06 day there are dark patches all over the 00:13:08 snow where tfts of grass were it’s 00:13:12 actually fairly obvious what 00:13:14 happened snow reflects reflects light 00:13:17 doesn’t absorb the heat the grass that 00:13:20 was breaching the tip was absorbing some 00:13:23 and creating small Pockets just warm 00:13:24 enough to melt the snow and so it 00:13:27 created these little melted spots all 00:13:29 over the place I’m assuming that’s what 00:13:30 it is that makes the most sense that 00:13:31 makes sense and uh uh I what I think 00:13:34 this could be what you’re referring to 00:13:35 I’m not a scientist or anything like 00:13:36 this but I was reading about how in an 00:13:39 ice age all of the ice and snow reflects 00:13:41 the heat back off the planet so it 00:13:43 actually slows the process of warming 00:13:45 yes definitely something that’s wild 00:13:47 that people need to understand is that 00:13:48 we are in the middle of an ice age right 00:13:50 now it’s been ongoing for three million 00:13:52 years and as Ben was just saying that 00:13:54 we’ve been warming for the last 12,000 00:13:55 years and the data shows and I’m citing 00:13:57 mainstream sources um Utah Geological 00:14:00 Survey is one of the most prestigious it 00:14:01 shows up at the top of Google so like 00:14:03 when I say mainstream accepted science 00:14:05 that it shows that the Earth is cold 00:14:08 more often than it’s hot this is part of 00:14:09 its natural cycle and that the cycles of 00:14:12 cooling last 7 to N9 times longer than 00:14:16 the warming in other words the periods 00:14:18 of warming that we’re in right now are 00:14:20 said to last just several thousand years 00:14:22 and yet we’re 12,000 years into it and 00:14:24 the cycles of warming can last up to 00:14:26 100,000 or excuse me of cooling can last 00:14:28 up to 70 to 90,000 years this has been 00:14:31 ongoing so we’ve had let me just give 00:14:33 you uh some more mainstream data in just 00:14:35 the last 450,000 years we’ve had five 00:14:39 interglacial periods again interglacial 00:14:41 periods are periods of warming and again 00:14:44 just to reiterate this the periods of 00:14:46 cooling last seven to nine times longer 00:14:48 in other words that if you look at the 00:14:50 graphs on on this data that they have 00:14:51 and again this is from Ice uh cores that 00:14:53 they’ve taken from Antarctica as well as 00:14:55 Greenland uh it shows that if anything 00:14:57 we’re due for cooling so when I’m 00:14:59 looking at these cycles of geomagnetic 00:15:01 pole shifts um and actually let me just 00:15:03 quickly say while I’m on a tangent you 00:15:05 know that we’re over the Target that 00:15:06 this is true when when Publications or 00:15:08 not even a publication a media Outlet 00:15:10 called Media Matters which was 00:15:11 originally funded by George Soros came 00:15:13 came after me hard they did a hitpiece 00:15:15 on me I discussed this wait what did you 00:15:17 know about this Media Matters did a 00:15:18 hitpiece on you yeah so are you like 00:15:20 voting for Trump or something so last 00:15:23 January I was on The Joe Rogan podcast 00:15:25 and I discussed What’s called the Adam 00:15:26 and Eve story talking about uh 00:15:28 catastrophe Cycles involving the Earth 00:15:30 magnetic pole shifts involving this Adam 00:15:32 and Eve story and they did a hit piece 00:15:34 on me saying that I was contradicting 00:15:36 mainstream science on climate change 00:15:38 because they quoted me saying that oh 00:15:40 you incorrectly said that the Earth is I 00:15:42 think that that the data shows that the 00:15:43 Earth is cold more often than it’s hot 00:15:44 that contradicts mainstream scientific 00:15:46 data I sent them I responded to them and 00:15:48 said uh excuse me actually look at the 00:15:50 data right here it shows that what I’m 00:15:51 talking about here has to do with the 00:15:54 cycles of of cooling and has to do with 00:15:56 like the Earth’s procession and and 00:15:57 other things involving poles 00:15:59 um and they came after me hard I’m like 00:16:00 that right there if George soros’s uh 00:16:03 soldiers are coming after me it I’m over 00:16:06 the target did they say you were saying 00:16:07 something wrong yes uh I said that 00:16:10 besides that they said the data does not 00:16:11 show that it’s cold more often than it’s 00:16:13 hot guys anyone can look at the Utah 00:16:14 Geological Survey as well as others um 00:16:17 you know NASA has publ published this 00:16:18 again this was published on NIH website 00:16:21 um and it shows that no literally the 00:16:23 interglacial periods are which is what 00:16:25 we’re in right now periods of warming um 00:16:27 shows that you know that the Earth is 00:16:29 naturally cold significantly more often 00:16:31 than it’s hot and he also said that uh 00:16:34 one that’s it right there that yes thank 00:16:36 you that’s the Utah data right there yep 00:16:38 five interglacial they’ll say four but 00:16:39 that looks like five to me interglacial 00:16:41 periods over the last 500 th 450,000 00:16:43 years and again just to reiterate this 00:16:45 so everyone understands what I’m saying 00:16:46 here those Cycles where it says 00:16:48 interglacial is what we’re in right now 00:16:49 it’s warming it’s interglacial means the 00:16:51 period where the Glaciers are receding 00:16:53 and there’s far fewer of them this is 00:16:54 this is from uh uh I I pull this from 00:16:56 the Utah Geological Survey yep shows up 00:16:58 at to UT utah.gov this is the government 00:17:01 website and you can plainly see that The 00:17:03 warm periods are Peaks and the glacial 00:17:06 periods are valleys which are longer and 00:17:08 they The warm periods come on Fast what 00:17:11 causes that is that a is that a solar 00:17:13 Shane Cashman ladies gentlemen good I 00:17:15 just uh I’m out there collecting samples 00:17:17 of the fake snow from this fake 00:17:19 blizzard I had a bon to pick with him I 00:17:21 heard he said it was a regular snowstorm 00:17:23 I don’t know it seems a little weird but 00:17:25 uh be here Brave my life for this we’re 00:17:27 in an interglacial period so things 00:17:29 should be warming yeah I had some 00:17:30 questions actually because of uh you’re 00:17:32 talking about the magnetic pole shifting 00:17:34 and um I’m going to get some coffee 00:17:35 there’s one thing I want to say real 00:17:36 quick because I think this very much 00:17:38 matters I was totally ignorant to this 00:17:40 here is an an image from the 00:17:41 guardian.com excuse me of tropical 00:17:45 glaciers y That’s like it is a glacier 00:17:48 in a warm place a large a photograph of 00:17:51 a large chunk of ice in a tropical area 00:17:54 important to know I I had a conversation 00:17:56 a long time ago there was a teacher and 00:18:00 we were talking about I can’t remember 00:18:01 what we were talking about oh it was 00:18:02 politics and this is this is 15 20 years 00:18:05 ago and I said they’re like oh George W 00:18:08 bush is all bad and all that stuff and I 00:18:09 was like I totally agree war and I was 00:18:11 like I can give him credit though for uh 00:18:13 preserving a lot of the Alaskan 00:18:14 rainforest I think I I I haven’t tracked 00:18:16 this stuff in a long time but I said 00:18:17 something like at the very least 00:18:20 creating uh uh national parks around the 00:18:22 Alaskan rainforest I think is a good 00:18:23 thing and she goes you mean Amazon 00:18:25 rainforest and I was like no no the 00:18:27 Alaskan rainforest it’s territory she 00:18:29 goes there’s no rainforce in Alaska and 00:18:31 I was like yes there is what are you 00:18:33 talking about and we were in Seattle I 00:18:35 was like where do where do you think you 00:18:36 live like this is a rainforest because 00:18:38 the average person here’s rainforest 00:18:40 they think jungle they don’t realize it 00:18:42 just means lots of rain in a forest and 00:18:45 so uh when when I heard you know you 00:18:48 mention tropical Glacier I was like it 00:18:50 sounds paradoxical right it’s real it’s 00:18:54 there so yeah uh Shane catch getting up 00:18:57 to speed you may have the last few 00:18:58 minutes but I was right where I was uh 00:19:01 driving up the hill I uh was hearing you 00:19:03 guys talk about the magnetic pole 00:19:04 shifting magnetic Shield reminded me of 00:19:06 a story I wrote a few years ago for Tim 00:19:09 cast about uh birds falling out of the 00:19:11 sky yeah uh and I was curious if 00:19:13 cryptochromes and the bird’s eyes like 00:19:15 migratory bird that has anything to do 00:19:16 with the pole sh you’re exactly on point 00:19:18 you’re exactly on point so what do you 00:19:19 think is going on there um so whether 00:19:21 you’re looking at strange things 00:19:22 happening with Birds um strength things 00:19:25 happening with whales sharks sea turtles 00:19:28 uh there’s even reports of uh deer going 00:19:31 off course where you’re looking at the 00:19:32 elephants in China who just went you 00:19:36 remember that little Excursion the 00:19:37 elephants went on I haven’t heard this 00:19:39 actually no no what is this in China uh 00:19:42 a couple years ago a bunch of elephants 00:19:44 broke out of where they were supposed to 00:19:46 be and then just started walking dude um 00:19:49 I saw moose do this in in uh Beacon New 00:19:51 York once and they were like yeah moose 00:19:53 are just walking in One Direction and we 00:19:55 don’t know what’s going on so people 00:19:57 need to understand that a lot of of 00:19:58 animals on Earth all the animals you 00:20:00 just mentioned salmon various insects 00:20:03 they are they look humpback Wheels can 00:20:05 travel 10,000 years and returned to 00:20:06 virtually the same location year round 00:20:08 salmon returned to almost the same spot 00:20:11 to spawn where from where they had 00:20:12 spawned themselves and it’s believed 00:20:14 that it’s related to their you know 00:20:16 geomagnetic Compass so if the Earth 00:20:18 Shields if the if the magnetic poles are 00:20:20 changing then it’s going to influence 00:20:21 life on Earth and if you really want to 00:20:23 get into a wild uh deep uh Rabbit Hole 00:20:26 yes is it just me or is Humanity Lo 00:20:28 their minds and I’m starting to wonder 00:20:29 if us if we are being affected by the 00:20:33 geomagnetic PSE cuz what you know you 00:20:34 get all these last time I was on here I 00:20:36 was reading various Bible scriptures 00:20:37 that were talking about the end times 00:20:38 and how people are going to be losing 00:20:39 their minds it just I’m starting to get 00:20:42 a vibe that that’s happening I liter 00:20:43 wrote that that’s so funny you guys have 00:20:46 you ever seen have you seen the research 00:20:48 where they put a massive magnet on 00:20:50 someone’s head and it makes them feel 00:20:51 the presence of God yeah I’ve heard 00:20:53 about it haven’t seen the vide we need 00:20:55 to do that so not only not only is that 00:20:57 legitimate but when they so since we’re 00:21:00 talking about losing the magnetic field 00:21:02 it’s sort of the opposite of putting a 00:21:04 magnet on your head they’ve done these 00:21:06 studies for the purpose of seeing what 00:21:08 was going to happen to astronauts 00:21:11 basically they put them in low magnetic 00:21:14 field areas they bombard them with 00:21:16 slightly higher levels of proton 00:21:18 radiation two interesting things happen 00:21:22 first thing that happens is the 00:21:23 hippocampus starts to get degraded and 00:21:26 their cognition goes down which is a 00:21:28 fancy way of say getting Dumber right 00:21:30 then the Locust cilus gets activated 00:21:33 which increases your vulnerability to 00:21:36 panic Terror anxiety and so basically 00:21:39 increased emotional 00:21:41 instability fear-based reactions and 00:21:44 getting Dumber is exactly what you’d 00:21:47 expect and that is that not the world 00:21:48 today right now toally take a look at 00:21:50 this headline from the Independent 00:21:52 disabling parts of the brain with 00:21:53 magnets can weaken faith in God and 00:21:55 change attitudes to immigrants study 00:21:58 finds oh that’s interesting yeah so when 00:22:00 you bring this up I’m like wait a minute 00:22:02 not to be a Bible thumer I did this last 00:22:03 time but since there’ll be a bunch of 00:22:05 new people listening so I just this will 00:22:06 only take a second to read off so this 00:22:08 is and I’m not a bible thumper but I 00:22:09 find it very interesting am I am when 00:22:12 when people wrote things because a lot 00:22:13 of people listening won’t be and I’m a 00:22:14 Believer and um but when people wrote 00:22:16 things down thousands of years ago and 00:22:17 went to a great extent to preserve it 00:22:19 I’m curious about what they are talking 00:22:20 about so here’s Isaiah 520 20 it says 00:22:23 what sorrow for those who say that evil 00:22:25 is good and good is evil that dark is 00:22:26 light and light is dark and bitter is 00:22:28 sweet and Sweet is bitter is that not 00:22:30 the backwards upside down world that 00:22:31 we’re living in like nothing makes sense 00:22:32 like you know crime is being celebrated 00:22:35 and and Injustice the Bible is a 00:22:36 structure to chaos you like it or not 00:22:38 Ian was just right about everything with 00:22:40 the vibrations of the universe and 00:22:42 something to it I mean also talking 00:22:43 about the polls it reminds me of a story 00:22:45 I heard from a friend she’s a very 00:22:46 successful lady in her 70s goes to like 00:22:48 some really crazy uh expensive doctor up 00:22:52 in New York City and he’s been telling 00:22:53 her for years that he believes the polls 00:22:55 are shifting and that it’s affecting 00:22:56 pilots and that because because of of 00:22:58 that they’re getting more radiation and 00:23:00 that they’re getting like crazier and 00:23:02 cancer at a higher level and you know 00:23:04 she she she so she I totally believe it 00:23:07 you know cuz like she hears it all the 00:23:08 time from this guy she’s been going him 00:23:09 for about I want to say a decade now 00:23:11 what’s so wild about that is that if you 00:23:12 look at they are updating and have been 00:23:14 for 10 years now uh Runway numbers all 00:23:17 across the world which are of course 00:23:18 align to the compass like if you were 00:23:20 land on Runway 36 R it’s you know 36 00:23:23 dead North so they’ve been updating them 00:23:25 around the world for the last decade you 00:23:27 can find new numerous articles about 00:23:29 that so it’s actively changing it’s 00:23:30 measurable so it’s changing everything 00:23:32 like so with the birds I was talking 00:23:33 about at the beginning when I got here 00:23:35 they were just hundreds were falling out 00:23:36 of the sky it was like M migratory birds 00:23:39 and no one knew why this is right before 00:23:40 Co oh look at this look crazy I had no 00:23:44 this is from the national centers for 00:23:45 environmental information this is 00:23:47 noaa.gov Airport runway names shift with 00:23:50 magnetic field that’s crazy and so 00:23:53 here’s the thing because there are so 00:23:55 many 00:23:56 Pilots they can’t just hide something 00:23:59 like this but they don’t have to put it 00:24:00 on CNN you know because there are so 00:24:04 many scientists who work with radiation 00:24:06 y they can’t hide studies about what to 00:24:10 expect when the magnetic field goes down 00:24:12 they just don’t have to put it on CNN 00:24:14 you can find all of this information 00:24:18 don’t turn those on yeah this is how I 00:24:19 feel about we’ll find a time if we do I 00:24:21 think Society just like large strange 00:24:25 object I thought you brought it a bomb 00:24:27 it looked like a bomb when I first saw 00:24:28 it what we are we going to plug in Co 00:24:31 are we plugging in I could let me get a 00:24:33 hit on that let me get a hit something 00:24:35 you’ve got to acquas too I don’t want 00:24:37 the computer to break so basically what 00:24:38 Happ it won’t affect your mechanics as 00:24:40 far as I can tell I have it set up next 00:24:41 to my machine for hours at a time and 00:24:43 it’s everything is fine but like uh what 00:24:45 happens is these this is based on Royal 00:24:47 Rice’s technology scientist of the 1920s 00:24:49 it would heal people with frequency 00:24:51 reportedly and you turn these things on 00:24:53 you plug them into a transistor and then 00:24:54 through your phone and you run different 00:24:55 frequencies through it and this is 00:24:57 electromag 00:24:58 magnetism I it produces magnetic fields 00:25:01 yeah but it’s just vibrating copper 00:25:02 basically but I I wonder because we’re 00:25:04 talking about the pole shifts how this 00:25:06 may be breaking people’s brains how 00:25:09 scientists have actually disabled 00:25:11 people’s faith in God with magnets 00:25:14 that’s what you were talking that’s what 00:25:15 made me think to go get these and I’m 00:25:16 wondering if perhaps the reason you’ve 00:25:18 got people saying this stuff can heal 00:25:19 you is that it restores the magnetic 00:25:21 balance or something like this like I’m 00:25:23 I’m not going to sit here and pretend 00:25:25 right now there’s a scientist putting 00:25:26 his face you know his hand in his face 00:25:28 like these guys are so dumb but uh if 00:25:31 we’re talking about this magnetic pole 00:25:32 shift if we’re talking about the strange 00:25:35 things happening around the world to 00:25:37 human psyche civilization 00:25:39 politics and perhaps because the data 00:25:42 shows there’s a correlation between 00:25:43 magnetism and people’s faith and 00:25:45 Prejudice and things like this I’m 00:25:46 wondering if there’s a reason why people 00:25:48 believe a device like this might have an 00:25:50 impact you want you want to hear another 00:25:51 one I read this last time I was on but I 00:25:53 if I may because I think that this 00:25:55 applies with what you just said so this 00:25:56 right here 2 Timothy 3 which is quot the 00:26:00 title or the chapter is evil in the last 00:26:02 days but understand this in the last 00:26:04 days terrible times will come for men 00:26:06 will be lovers of themselves lovers of 00:26:08 money boastful arrogant abusive 00:26:10 disobedient to their parents ungrateful 00:26:12 Unholy unloving unforgiving slanderous 00:26:15 without self-control brutal without the 00:26:17 love of good traitorous Reckless 00:26:19 conceited lovers of pleasure rather than 00:26:22 lovers of God having a form of godliness 00:26:24 but denying its power turn away from 00:26:26 such as these I’m like is this not the 00:26:28 world we’re living in it is it’s like 00:26:29 it’s like reading that or hearing it is 00:26:31 like it reminds me that human nature is 00:26:33 cyclical as well as like the apocalyptic 00:26:35 nature you guys are talking about right 00:26:36 like we go through these large cycles 00:26:38 and when they were writing that they I 00:26:40 think gathered a lot of experience of of 00:26:42 human nature but it also sounds like 00:26:43 that’s what kids are like like it’s like 00:26:45 people will be at their parents
00:26:47 kids are going to scream but that’s like
00:26:49 to a violent degree is it Amplified
00:26:51 because of it like we’ve always been
00:26:53 like this is human nature no doubt it’s
00:26:54 a human you know condition but it’s like
00:26:56 are things becoming magnified in are
00:26:57 some people more vulnerable to it than
00:26:59 others do you guys think that it’s like
00:27:00 um like it’s like Destiny like we built
00:27:03 this this electromagnetic technology
00:27:05 that’s got to be interfering with our
00:27:07 Consciousness in some way all those
00:27:08 these machines and electricity did we
00:27:10 just happen to invent electricity at
00:27:12 this part of the cycle on purpose I
00:27:16 before you guys answer I would just say
00:27:17 based on what you’re describing with
00:27:19 magnetic pole shift climate change
00:27:22 glacial Cycles Etc it seems like you’re
00:27:24 talking about a drop of water in the
00:27:26 ocean yeah maybe but the way electricity
00:27:28 works too like one spark can cause an
00:27:30 entire chain of react chain of command
00:27:33 like it can yeah but starting a fire is
00:27:36 different from having like a
00:27:38 flamethrower pointed at someone right so
00:27:40 we have all of these uh electronic
00:27:44 devices emitting these you know emfs and
00:27:46 things like that but then you look at
00:27:47 the Earth’s magnetic field and it is
00:27:49 just you’re talking about a drop of
00:27:51 water in the ocean you know yeah I mean
00:27:54 it’s one thing you know if you’ve got
00:27:56 your cell phone up to to your head all
00:27:58 day long and and doing stuff like that
00:28:01 okay it it absolutely could have an
00:28:03 effect um I don’t know if it’s going to
00:28:05 be the anywhere near the effect that
00:28:07 losing the magnetic field and having the
00:28:09 extra Cosmic radiation coming through
00:28:10 the atmosphere is going to have um
00:28:13 that’s my question what is causing the
00:28:15 magnetic field to to warp right now well
00:28:17 so that’s uh that’s a little bit of a
00:28:21 subject of of discussion you’ve got a
00:28:23 lot of geophysicists working at you know
00:28:26 very prestigious universi who like to
00:28:28 think that it’s something happening at
00:28:29 Earth’s core uh there’s a lot of
00:28:31 evidence that the Sun and even the
00:28:33 galactic magnetic field have something
00:28:35 to do with it now that gets a little
00:28:36 more complex we don’t have to get into
00:28:38 all of that but what we do know is this
00:28:41 happens so regularly on a cycle and that
00:28:46 cycle is up and we’re seeing exactly
00:28:47 what we’d be expecting to see oh uh up
00:28:51 there you’ve got a so this was an
00:28:53 article that NASA posted directly at you
00:28:57 want to believe it or not NASA actually
00:29:00 posted this article directly to me and
00:29:04 it was the start of my second battle
00:29:06 with NASA it says why variations in
00:29:08 Earth’s magnetic field aren’t causing
00:29:10 today’s climate change and it’s got this
00:29:12 cool little graphic of the magnetic
00:29:14 field acting as a force field protecting
00:29:16 Earth so I I went through paragraph by
00:29:19 paragraph and obliterated this in a
00:29:21 video a couple years ago the other thing
00:29:23 to know is that um you know a lot of the
00:29:26 stuff that they’re talking about here
00:29:28 doesn’t actually have anything to do
00:29:29 with with the top of conversation if you
00:29:31 guys if you find anything in this
00:29:32 article that you’re curious about I’ve
00:29:34 still got it all in the Forefront of my
00:29:36 memory I’m happy to go over it again um
00:29:40 why why did they post this like so what
00:29:41 were you saying and what did they
00:29:42 retaliate essentially I was saying that
00:29:45 the sun’s interaction with Earth as it
00:29:47 is being changed and enhanced by Earth
00:29:50 losing the magnetic field is the main
00:29:52 cause of climate change nowadays and so
00:29:54 many people started talking about it
00:29:56 after I posted the video
00:29:58 NASA decided that they were going to try
00:29:59 to respond and uh it didn’t go very well
00:30:03 what are your thoughts on NASA um there
00:30:05 are people at Nasa who have their heads
00:30:08 screwed on straight um there are a lot
00:30:10 of people at Nasa who I talk to
00:30:12 regularly who say it’s so frustrating
00:30:14 that I can’t get my papers published I
00:30:16 can’t get a grant to study certain
00:30:18 things I can’t even go throughout the
00:30:20 rest of the department and talk about
00:30:22 what I think I basically have to be you
00:30:25 go Rogue right and there’s a lot of
00:30:27 professors like that as well
00:30:29 um by and large um you know NASA is full
00:30:34 of a lot of disconnected units who don’t
00:30:36 have the full picture everybody’s just
00:30:38 working on their own little thing sounds
00:30:40 like the government at large um the
00:30:42 people in charge of the of the
00:30:44 Departments the GED space flight center
00:30:47 JPL definitely
00:30:49 earth’s climate team at Nasa they are
00:30:53 very they’re as much politicians as they
00:30:55 are scientists that’s what scar areas
00:30:57 that they could be ideologically
00:30:58 captured as well oh it’s just as easy
00:31:00 financially you know it’s just as easy
00:31:02 to buy a politician as it is or buy a
00:31:04 scientist as it is a politician science
00:31:06 TM I’ve been calling it trademark
00:31:08 science TM you know it’s like we’re
00:31:09 follow the money it’s like you know a
00:31:10 lot of scientists that spend you know
00:31:12 quarter million dollars in an education
00:31:13 and they can’t get a job afterwards so
00:31:15 of course they’re going to go where the
00:31:16 real funding’s at because they’re trying
00:31:17 to live my my guess about what’s
00:31:19 happening with the magnetic field is the
00:31:21 Earth the Sun and our solar system is in
00:31:23 the galactic arm which is going like
00:31:25 this and every time it goes up the
00:31:27 Earth’s magnetic field is swaps down and
00:31:29 and then every time the galactic arm
00:31:31 waves down again the Earth’s poles are
00:31:34 like going that’s very close that’s very
00:31:36 close to what it is very very close um
00:31:39 the galactic magnetic
00:31:40 field uh for it wraps around the whole
00:31:43 galaxy but the part where the North and
00:31:46 the South magnetic fields are separated
00:31:48 are not a straight flat line through the
00:31:51 equator of the Galaxy it ripples outward
00:31:54 like a ballerina skirt and so it
00:31:56 literally looks looks like a wave coming
00:31:58 like this and it it’s moving throughout
00:32:01 the Galaxy as well and as this wave
00:32:04 Crest passes by our solar system our
00:32:06 entire solar system goes from the north
00:32:08 to the South to the north to the South
00:32:10 magnetic fields it’s basically a
00:32:12 galactic magnetic reversal they have
00:32:14 spotted this electric current sheet
00:32:17 separating the North and South they have
00:32:19 detailed it very well in fact in the
00:32:21 Milky Way they know that who they though
00:32:23 uh I mean mainstream astronomers and so
00:32:26 what is actually mainstream science is
00:32:28 we know that the this wave is tens of
00:32:31 light years thick it is anywhere from 60
00:32:34 to 170 parex tall which is you know
00:32:37 parsec is you know a little more than
00:32:38 two light years and they’ve also started
00:32:42 discovering these same forms at stars
00:32:46 they know about the sun’s version of it
00:32:48 they’ve discovered it in other galaxies
00:32:50 as well um and so this is also
00:32:53 mainstream science but only amongst
00:32:56 galactic astrophysics you try to bring
00:32:58 that same science into okay well what’s
00:33:00 this doing to the sun what’s this doing
00:33:02 to the Earth and they don’t want to hear
00:33:05 it but at the same time it’s it’s so
00:33:09 blatantly obvious that okay according to
00:33:12 Galactic astrophysics you’ve got a
00:33:15 galactic magnetic reversal that should
00:33:16 be repeatedly over and over and over
00:33:19 again hitting our entire solar system
00:33:21 and when you look it’s not just the
00:33:22 Earth that’s changing right now the
00:33:24 sun’s magnetic fields are changing Venus
00:33:27 is changing Mars Jupiter Saturn Uranus
00:33:29 Neptune even Pluto they’re all changing
00:33:31 even more than the earth is Earth’s
00:33:33 lucky enough to have one of the
00:33:35 strongest magnetic fields in the solar
00:33:37 system especially relative to its size
00:33:39 technically Jupiter’s is stronger but if
00:33:41 you were to shrink Jupiter down to the
00:33:43 size of Earth and Shrink its magnetic
00:33:44 field you know along with it Earth’s
00:33:47 would be stronger Earth is an incredibly
00:33:49 powerful magnetic field which is why
00:33:51 it’s actually the least changing sphere
00:33:53 in our entire solar system right now and
00:33:55 in addition to that you’d say say okay
00:33:57 well what else would you expect to see
00:33:59 if we’re going through a galactic
00:34:00 magnetic reversal okay well this
00:34:02 electric field what’s it going to do in
00:34:03 space it’s going to act like an electric
00:34:05 Swiffer Duster there’s a lot of dust
00:34:07 gases other things like that over the
00:34:09 last 10 years I could show you the
00:34:11 papers there’s tons of extra dust that
00:34:13 they’re noticing in the solar system
00:34:15 near the top of the sun’s atmosphere
00:34:17 Earth’s atmosphere has about 55% more
00:34:20 dust in its upper layers than it did
00:34:23 about a century ago they’re noticing
00:34:25 more ions more neutral gases the Voyager
00:34:28 probes out past Pluto they’re detecting
00:34:31 magnetic pressure fronts and magnetic
00:34:33 shock waves and other things of that
00:34:35 nature Pluto lost a fifth of its
00:34:38 atmosphere in one year on Neptune the
00:34:40 superstorms have reversed direction I
00:34:43 mean imagine if all of a sudden
00:34:44 Hurricanes started forming off the coast
00:34:46 of Florida and then just shot Eastward
00:34:48 across the Atlantic towards Africa we
00:34:50 would say that’s not how Earth Works
00:34:52 that can’t happen okay same thing with
00:34:54 Neptune except it just did happen
00:34:56 there’s records storms on Uranus record
00:34:58 Aurora on Uranus on Saturn there’s a
00:35:01 superstorm that comes around every 30
00:35:04 years it just appears every 30 years and
00:35:06 astronomers realize wait a minut okay so
00:35:07 Saturn doesn’t have a perfectly circular
00:35:09 orbit there’s this one point in Saturn’s
00:35:11 30-year orbit where it’s slightly closer
00:35:14 to the Sun that’s the exact moment where
00:35:18 for decades and decades they’ve been
00:35:19 noticing when it’s at its closest point
00:35:21 to the sun enough energy gets into the
00:35:23 saturnian atmosphere to form the
00:35:25 superstorm it just formed a decade early
00:35:27 how does that happen it’s losing its
00:35:29 magnetic field more of that solar energy
00:35:31 is coming in it tricked the planet into
00:35:33 thinking it was at its closest point to
00:35:35 the Sun so you you were mentioning
00:35:36 before uh I asked about day after
00:35:38 tomorrow yeah I think everybody’s seen
00:35:40 that movie right yeah in that movie
00:35:42 there’s a a super storm that pulls in
00:35:45 what do they say it pulls in cold air
00:35:47 from super cold Atmos super troposphere
00:35:49 what from from the troposphere and the
00:35:51 low Stratosphere it drops the
00:35:52 temperatures to like minus 400 or
00:35:54 something and then everything instantly
00:35:56 freezes
00:35:57 that won’t happen will it probably not
00:35:59 but at the same time probably that
00:36:01 wasn’t very confident no I mean the kind
00:36:04 of superstorms are they’re going to be
00:36:05 bad but what we do know is this does
00:36:07 happen every 6,000 years and then on a
00:36:10 greater level every 12,000 years and and
00:36:13 at no point has it ever killed the whole
00:36:14 planet I think that this might be a good
00:36:16 segue into differentiating the
00:36:17 difference between geomagnetic pole
00:36:19 shifts and actual flip so to anyone
00:36:21 listening a geomagnetic pull shift means
00:36:23 that our compasses will flip like North
00:36:25 will now be South and vice ver um but
00:36:28 and those happen you know within tens of
00:36:30 thousands years 6,000 years but one
00:36:32 thing the last time we had an actual
00:36:33 flip where the Earth physically flips
00:36:36 was approximately 780,000 years ago and
00:36:39 we’re something like 200,000 years
00:36:41 overdue so Ben is that what you see is
00:36:44 happening next is it are we in the
00:36:45 middle of a geomagnetic pole shift or is
00:36:47 are we in the mix of a flip a physical
00:36:49 flip I see the Earth doing that 90
00:36:51 degree tilt every 12,000 years on the
00:36:54 geomagnetic excursions 90 degree tilt
00:36:57 would would is is that going to put the
00:36:59 like the North and South Pole at the
00:37:00 equator or essentially picture you’ve
00:37:02 got a globe and you you’re looking at
00:37:04 Greenland okay Tilt The Globe towards
00:37:07 you until Greenland is at the equator
00:37:09 but but this means if you live in like
00:37:12 what if you if you if you live in Miami
00:37:15 for instance you are it’s going to be
00:37:17 cold it’s going to be Arctic Circle ask
00:37:19 yourself why this crocodile fossils in
00:37:20 theka Antarctic Circle but yeah right
00:37:22 right right but what I mean is like
00:37:24 right basically you’re going to be in
00:37:25 this this this you’re you’re going to
00:37:27 have permanent you’re going to have
00:37:28 winter all night summer all day unless
00:37:30 unless that’s the axis that it tilts on
00:37:32 so would it be like like the North Pole
00:37:34 would tilt 90° and then it would keep
00:37:36 rotating the same direction so then the
00:37:39 or would it be that the North Pole would
00:37:41 turn 90 degrees and then it would start
00:37:42 rotating right now Earth is just
00:37:44 rotating around one axis right we’re
00:37:47 just doing this it’s going to be doing
00:37:50 this and then as it’s going to be
00:37:52 turning on another axis the math shows
00:37:56 pretty well well and they actually did
00:37:57 this math in the 1940s and the
00:38:00 1950s uh Einstein did the math the Rand
00:38:02 Corporation did the math which we’re
00:38:04 going to talk we kind of have to talk
00:38:06 about in a little bit but basically it’s
00:38:09 all about where there is too much ice
00:38:11 weight too much weight of ice because
00:38:14 this is basic physics when you’ve got an
00:38:16 object that’s spinning the heaviest part
00:38:18 of the object that’s spinning wants to
00:38:20 spin at the point of greatest
00:38:21 centrifugal force that’s the equator CU
00:38:24 obviously it’s taking the same amount of
00:38:27 time to do one rotation as the poles but
00:38:29 at the poles it’s just a slow turn you
00:38:31 know at the equator you’re going we know
00:38:33 is a th mil yeah so this is a this is a
00:38:36 really cool thing I saw love this yeah
00:38:38 this is the genov effect the tennis
00:38:40 racket theorem the second axis theorem
00:38:42 uh this is really cool and I don’t know
00:38:45 if this is exactly how it’s going to
00:38:46 work on Earth but something like this um
00:38:51 is going to happen and it’s you know
00:38:53 with this it’s actually 180 degrees but
00:38:56 then again for for for those that are
00:38:57 listening it is a t-shaped tool like a
00:39:00 handle it’s a guy in the space station
00:39:02 he spins it and it it’s spinning around
00:39:06 every few rotations it flips and then
00:39:09 flips back and then flips back and then
00:39:11 flips back kind of weird you wonder why
00:39:13 that why that is yeah so uh it’s hard to
00:39:16 know whether or not this is exactly the
00:39:18 mechanism when it comes to Earth I don’t
00:39:20 want to suggest it’s the same mechanism
00:39:21 I just wanted to show that there are
00:39:22 these phenomena where certainly
00:39:24 certainly what doesn’t seem to make
00:39:27 sense it will just flip you’d think that
00:39:31 an object in the t-shape if you were to
00:39:33 spin it on Earth on a table it’s going
00:39:34 to spin like a top right if you were to
00:39:36 put in the air and spin it you’d think
00:39:37 it would flip wildly in random
00:39:39 directions in fact it stabilizes and
00:39:41 flips back and forth near perfectly mhm
00:39:45 that that’s what the Rand Corporation
00:39:47 determined actually happens to the
00:39:48 planet now before we get to that there’s
00:39:50 three important things to think about
00:39:52 because when we’re talking about the
00:39:54 magnetic pole shift and the Earth
00:39:55 turning over the idea of the earth doing
00:39:57 a 90 degree tilt is the hardest one for
00:39:59 people to get their heads
00:40:01 around not only is this in a lot of
00:40:05 different historical catastrophist
00:40:07 accounts it’s in a lot of religions The
00:40:09 Book of Enoch chapter 65 says and Noah
00:40:12 saw the world turned over and knew that
00:40:13 its destruction was near but there’s so
00:40:17 there’s this entire category of the
00:40:20 history of catastrophism you know
00:40:22 whether it’s Earth swaying like a
00:40:24 drunkard there’s two things that are
00:40:26 really important to know here one of
00:40:28 them the second one you guys might have
00:40:30 to fact check and do a little bit of
00:40:32 looking but I’ll describe it very well
00:40:34 the this other one you can just do this
00:40:36 in your heads so you all know the story
00:40:38 of the mammoths that were flash frozen
00:40:40 food undigested in their mouths and
00:40:42 stomachs yeah what you need to realize
00:40:45 is these mammoths were consuming
00:40:47 hundreds if not thousands of pounds of
00:40:49 vegetation every day where they found
00:40:52 these
00:40:53 mammoths there is not enough vegetation
00:40:56 to support them today in an interglacial
00:40:59 warm cycle these things were frozen
00:41:02 during the glacial cycle there was no
00:41:05 food where they found those mammoths
00:41:07 today at that Latitude which means that
00:41:09 when they were there when they were
00:41:11 eating when they were frozen they were
00:41:12 not at that Latitude they were at a
00:41:15 lower latitude in a warmer temperate
00:41:18 High vegetation area and were then
00:41:20 thrust to the polar region this is
00:41:23 something you can do just think about I
00:41:24 mean they had to dig them out of the ice
00:41:26 there’s nowhere around the world at that
00:41:29 Latitude where those mammoths could have
00:41:31 survived today let alone during a
00:41:33 glacial cycle wait if if the planet
00:41:36 tilted to a 90° it’s so it’s spinning
00:41:38 like this is that what you’re saying it
00:41:40 it the the spin will write itself so
00:41:42 that it’s always going you know kind of
00:41:44 like we know now but it’ll kind of be
00:41:45 like a wonky swaying back and forth
00:41:48 which is where the swaying like a
00:41:50 drunker from the Bible probably comes
00:41:51 from it’s it’s it’s going to be tilting
00:41:54 like this and then the Tilt will kind of
00:41:56 but that means at least for some period
00:41:58 as this is happening people will
00:42:00 experience like what monthlong days or
00:42:03 longer this whole thing is going to take
00:42:04 place in just about a just about well
00:42:07 definitely less than a week but probably
00:42:09 a day or two is how long the Tilt takes
00:42:12 the the ship is going to happen in a day
00:42:14 a day but this means like a thief in the
00:42:15 night is that means overnight you know
00:42:18 if you’re if you’re living in Florida
00:42:19 where it’s like sun up sun down at what
00:42:21 like 7:00 p.m. or whatever every every
00:42:23 day the closer you get to the Equator
00:42:24 the more the sunset and you know is
00:42:26 stabilized if you live the further north
00:42:28 you get obviously if you’re in the
00:42:29 Arctic Circle you get permanent sunlight
00:42:32 in the summer and permanent dark in the
00:42:33 winter it’s not perfect actually it’s
00:42:34 really interesting CU I was just up in
00:42:36 uh in Barrow you can see Twilight on the
00:42:38 horizon it’s you but if that shift would
00:42:41 have happened that means you’d be like
00:42:43 all right sunsets around 8800 p.m. or
00:42:44 whatever you go to bed and you wake up
00:42:45 and it’s just sun doesn’t go down
00:42:46 anymore you want to hear something nuts
00:42:47 from the or or doesn’t come back up so
00:42:49 we were just talking about scripture so
00:42:51 this is from the Quran he who seeks
00:42:53 repentance from the Lord before the
00:42:55 rising of the Sun from the West Rising
00:42:58 the Sun from the West before the day of
00:42:59 Resurrection Allah turns to him with
00:43:02 mercy and here’s one from the Bible
00:43:03 Joshua 1013 so the sun Stood Still and
00:43:06 the moon stopped the nation Avenged
00:43:08 itself from its enemies as is written in
00:43:09 the book of josar the sun stopped in the
00:43:12 middle of the sky and delayed going down
00:43:15 about a full day what are they talking
00:43:19 about when you say thrust how violent is
00:43:20 this for people basically it it’s it’s
00:43:23 not like you’re standing there and then
00:43:24 the world’s going to jerk to the side
00:43:26 and you’re going to be thrown into the
00:43:27 wall it’s an acceleration of about 17
00:43:31 mph per minute now if you’ve ever
00:43:35 stopped at a stop sign in a car you know
00:43:36 that’s 17 m per hour per minute is
00:43:39 nothing but when that lasts 60 Minutes
00:43:42 120 Minutes when it lasts a th minutes
00:43:44 right by the peak of this the planet’s
00:43:47 moving hundreds of miles an hour in that
00:43:49 direction now it’s come on SO gradually
00:43:51 that you don’t necessarily notice it
00:43:53 other than looking in the sky and
00:43:55 noticing that the clouds look weird and
00:43:57 the animals are going crazy so if it’s
00:43:58 happening at night the stars are
00:44:00 shifting oh yeah a third of the stars
00:44:02 that you could once see would no longer
00:44:04 be visible to you so we get a new view
00:44:06 yeah new view um but you know it’s easy
00:44:09 to wrap it’s easy to read scripture like
00:44:11 that and there’s a lot of good ones in
00:44:12 Isaiah as well about that and it’s
00:44:15 pretty easy to wrap your head around the
00:44:16 idea of like okay wait a minute how were
00:44:18 these mammoths eating that much food if
00:44:21 they were literally in the Arctic there
00:44:23 isn’t that much food there now certainly
00:44:24 wasn’t in the glacial cycle and so you
00:44:26 can say okay well were they closer to
00:44:29 the Equator at that
00:44:31 time the single most important discovery
00:44:36 about this was kept to this day it’s
00:44:39 kept secret by the government but it was
00:44:41 secretly kept out of classified files by
00:44:45 Major Maynard E White he led project nuk
00:44:50 to the Arctic in the 1940s
00:44:52 now it is absolutely true what they say
00:44:56 about the mainstream what the mainstream
00:44:58 says about project denok they went up to
00:45:01 Northern Canada and their goal was to
00:45:03 learn how to navigate around the
00:45:05 magnetic pole and set up defenses just
00:45:08 in case Russia came over the
00:45:10 top
00:45:12 but at that time they had to First
00:45:15 discover where the magnetic pole was
00:45:17 they figured out it was moving and they
00:45:19 decided to dig down now this isn’t this
00:45:22 to this day has not been acknowledged by
00:45:24 the government by Main stream but major
00:45:27 white kept the documents from the
00:45:29 journey he kept the documents from the
00:45:31 Pentagon and he kept the documents from
00:45:32 the Rand Corporation who did the math he
00:45:35 gave them to his son Ken white to
00:45:37 publish in a book called World in Peril
00:45:40 it is a very hard book to find I got a
00:45:43 copy of it several years ago but
00:45:45 essentially what these documents and
00:45:47 it’s very clear when you’re looking at
00:45:49 these that they weren’t faked and you
00:45:51 know this guy had no reason to fake them
00:45:53 he kept them gave them to his son so
00:45:54 that the world would know
00:45:56 when they started digging down around
00:45:58 the magnetic pole in the Arctic Circle
00:46:01 the first several feet was polar fossils
00:46:04 the next layer was tropical fossils
00:46:07 polar fossils tropical fossils polar
00:46:09 fossils tropical fossils if they’re
00:46:11 keeping this a secret how do you know
00:46:12 about it because major white kept all
00:46:15 the information gave it to his son to
00:46:17 publish in the book World in Peril is
00:46:20 this like operation high jump is that
00:46:22 the same thing didn’t they go up there
00:46:23 for and their theories are they
00:46:24 experiened some type different operation
00:46:26 right but they the same place right
00:46:28 that’s it Tim that’s the book and
00:46:31 they’ll just they’ll call the pseudo
00:46:32 science so if you running like a secret
00:46:34 they just say oh well it’s it’s BS it’s
00:46:35 not true that’s it and so essentially
00:46:38 what they’re what they’re saying is that
00:46:41 the mainstream position would be that
00:46:42 major white lied that he fabricated all
00:46:46 these documents from the Pentagon from
00:46:48 the Rand Corporation from Project nuk up
00:46:51 to the Arctic I I don’t believe that is
00:46:54 the case everything looks
00:46:57 genuine he had no reason to do this he
00:47:00 this wasn’t published by him it was
00:47:02 published by his son several decades
00:47:04 later because if he published it himself
00:47:06 he would be subject to very serious
00:47:09 criminal penalties well he he would be
00:47:11 even if his son had it in theory yes but
00:47:14 he was uh when when the book was
00:47:17 published he had actually uh started
00:47:20 working um he was one of the people who
00:47:23 oversaw spies and and um he had been
00:47:27 retired at this point and there’s a very
00:47:29 good chance I mean he died what what
00:47:31 about the other possibility I mean if
00:47:33 we’re going to get conspiratorial that
00:47:34 this is a pseudo conspiracy released by
00:47:36 the government intentionally to confuse
00:47:39 or distract I think about 100 people
00:47:42 knew about this book before I found it
00:47:44 like nobody knew like I mean unless
00:47:46 their plan was to literally somehow
00:47:50 guide me to this book and and have me
00:47:53 talk about it you know who who’s that
00:47:55 guy who claimed he saw aliens in the
00:47:56 ’90s I always forget his name uh the one
00:47:58 who was abducted no no he worked for the
00:48:00 government Lazar Lazar Lazar he said
00:48:03 that he saw Little Green Man or whatever
00:48:04 but then later on says oh it must have
00:48:05 been a puppet or something and and one
00:48:07 of the theories as to the claims he made
00:48:09 is they brought him in specifically to
00:48:12 trick him hoping he would then go to the
00:48:15 press and say a bunch of crazy nonsense
00:48:17 there’s a really simple reason you would
00:48:18 do something like this you want your
00:48:20 enemies to think you have powerful
00:48:21 weapons they can’t describe or
00:48:22 understand to to scare them to deter
00:48:24 them well yeah I think of Annie Jacobson
00:48:26 if you want to believe her or not I’m
00:48:27 not sure how I feel but she wrote a book
00:48:29 where she said she had a a high level
00:48:31 Source from Area 51 who claimed that we
00:48:33 brought in uh disabled children and
00:48:35 mutilated them to make them look like uh
00:48:37 extraterrestrials she said it on Rogan
00:48:39 like four or five years ago it’s in her
00:48:41 book I forgot the name of the book so
00:48:42 there is that it’s just more believable
00:48:43 than aliens right depraved government
00:48:46 actors mutilating children well that
00:48:47 perfect yeah makes sense to us right now
00:48:50 A as a person who you know likes to keep
00:48:53 an open mind and think about things I
00:48:55 can’t sit here and definitively say that
00:48:57 what Tim just described isn’t what
00:48:59 happened i’ I’d like I’ve never believed
00:49:02 I’ve been that kind of special I do know
00:49:05 this whether it’s the Bible the Quran
00:49:08 the VC Stories the stories from India
00:49:10 which also talk about this the
00:49:11 zoroastrian texts which talk about the
00:49:13 Earth turning over it’s in every ancient
00:49:15 story I think about the mammoths and how
00:49:18 they literally could not have been in
00:49:20 the Arctic when they like living there
00:49:22 there wasn’t enough
00:49:24 food okay it really makes me think okay
00:49:27 between the mammoths and the religious
00:49:28 stories there has to be something where
00:49:30 the Earth turns this is the perfect
00:49:33 explanation for it and it just so
00:49:36 happens you know they found I mean their
00:49:39 geologist said these layers are
00:49:40 separated by about 10 to 12,000 years
00:49:43 which is the perfect geomagnetic cycle
00:49:45 the perfect cycle on which the earth
00:49:47 goes back and forth on this tilt is
00:49:50 literally either that is absolutely true
00:49:54 and the world tilts 90° as these
00:49:57 geomagnetic pole shifts occur as is
00:49:59 about to happen in the next 20 years or
00:50:03 the government has literally targeted me
00:50:05 like they did Bob Lazar as as an
00:50:08 instrument to release this information
00:50:10 and then at the same time completely
00:50:13 censored my YouTube channel got me
00:50:16 kicked off a Twitter look more credible
00:50:17 to Crazy conspiracy theorists Like Me
00:50:20 Maybe maybe they banned you from YouTube
00:50:22 they haven’t Banned Me from YouTube yet
00:50:23 but I got to be very very careful what I
00:50:26 you know and I just need to iterate this
00:50:27 I’m throttled like crazy which is that
00:50:29 this is mainstream science that the
00:50:30 Earth flips so what’s you know and going
00:50:33 back to that hit piece by Media Matters
00:50:34 it was me discussing the Adam and Eve
00:50:36 story which was discussed in a CIA
00:50:38 meeting that I learned from Ben a number
00:50:39 of years ago that you were the first to
00:50:41 discuss it that’s where I learned of
00:50:42 this and that’s what they originally
00:50:43 attacked me for was discussing
00:50:45 discussing the Adam and Eve story which
00:50:47 talks about a catastrophic pole flip
00:50:49 that happens every 6,500 years and is
00:50:51 the missing link to Lost ancient human
00:50:53 civilizations it says that this is the
00:50:54 story that’s been told and passed down
00:50:56 by religions across the the continents
00:50:59 and that’s what they hit me for so of
00:51:01 all things and I was so let me give a
00:51:02 shout out to Tucker Carlson he talked
00:51:04 about this he indirectly mentioned me I
00:51:05 don’t know I don’t think he knows who I
00:51:06 am but he had mentioned this when he
00:51:08 gave a speech in Las Vegas approximately
00:51:09 a month ago where he said I just came
00:51:11 across that Media Matters had came after
00:51:13 a guy that discussed you know this
00:51:15 document um discussing the uh you know
00:51:18 catastrophic events that reset human
00:51:19 civilization and if all things on earth
00:51:22 that Media Matters funded by George
00:51:23 Soros would go after why are the concern
00:51:25 about some YouTuber talking about some
00:51:27 conspiratorial P shift andless you know
00:51:30 what I mean like if all things they go
00:51:31 after why did they focus on that so
00:51:32 you’re not talking about the Adam and
00:51:33 Eve story from the Bible you’re talking
00:51:35 about the history of cataclysms by Chan
00:51:37 Thomas Thomas correct then you should
00:51:39 talk about that yeah what is that so he
00:51:41 wrote three versions of that the latest
00:51:43 one in the 9s right before he died is
00:51:45 the best one cuz he actually figured it
00:51:47 took him three versions and several
00:51:49 decades to figure out the sun blasts the
00:51:53 but Jesus out of our planet when this
00:51:55 occurs because the sun’s undergoing the
00:51:57 galactic magnetic reversal too and he
00:52:01 also mentioned the galactic magnetic
00:52:03 field so at the end of the day he
00:52:04 finally got the whole story everything
00:52:07 from the mega floods to the Earth
00:52:10 turning over to the extra radiation to
00:52:12 the way humans will treat each other in
00:52:14 the end times to the impact of the Sun
00:52:17 the effect of the Galaxy on our entire
00:52:20 solar system the 1990s version of the
00:52:23 Adam and Eve Story by chance Thomas is
00:52:26 literally the full story of of what’s
00:52:29 happening right now what do you mean
00:52:30 full story like he rewrote Adam and or
00:52:32 the Genesis so I mean essentially I
00:52:35 mean do you remember ever having those
00:52:37 textbook in school and it was
00:52:40 like algebra something like seventh
00:52:42 edition you know they just keep updating
00:52:44 it with new information he he was able
00:52:47 to make three editions of the story and
00:52:50 you know back in the 60s when he wrote
00:52:51 the first one he had a lot but they
00:52:53 didn’t know anything about the Sun or
00:52:54 the galactic I magnetic fields back then
00:52:57 by the time the 9s rolled around he
00:52:58 literally could complete the entire
00:53:01 story and not only that he talked so
00:53:02 there’s something called the younger
00:53:03 driest climate catastrophe that happened
00:53:05 11,600 years ago or the precipice of it
00:53:08 was 12,800 years ago he talks and
00:53:10 describes these events decades before it
00:53:12 was published so it’s like how did he
00:53:14 understand this information decades
00:53:16 before is this possible that when the
00:53:18 earth flips 90° this is why the the
00:53:21 Sphinx has water erosion on it cuz it
00:53:23 was actually in a different part of the
00:53:25 it was definitely underwater it was
00:53:28 definitely underw I don’t know uh
00:53:30 egyptologist geologists and others have
00:53:32 rejected water erosion hypothesis that
00:53:34 Pro course they I tell you what everyone
00:53:36 has the ability for discernment and if
00:53:39 you look at the water or the Sphinx in
00:53:41 closure it anyone you do not have to be
00:53:43 a a geologist to understand the
00:53:45 difference between wind erosion and
00:53:47 water erosion and you can see the two
00:53:49 examples of both on the Giza Plateau
00:53:51 I’ve been out there a few times you can
00:53:53 see like you could just go to Google
00:53:55 images and look at examples of limestone
00:53:58 with water erosion and Limestone with
00:54:00 wind erosion look at look look at these
00:54:02 lines I mean up top wind the enclosure
00:54:06 so down to the lower right that’s the
00:54:08 enclosure that was once buried and
00:54:10 consumed up top on the Sphinx that’s
00:54:12 wind erosion and what’s significant
00:54:14 about this is that the Sphinx is
00:54:15 allegedly 4200 years old and yet the
00:54:18 last time the N Delta Region had
00:54:20 significant rainfall was 9,000 years ago
00:54:23 nearly double the age of the sphin
00:54:25 so it throws a a wrench into the age
00:54:27 that some have suggested that this is
00:54:28 tens of thousands of years old and Dr
00:54:30 Robert shock from Boston University is
00:54:32 the one that brought this to light and
00:54:33 he was at a conference with a few
00:54:35 hundred other geologists he didn’t show
00:54:37 him the sphin he just showed him the
00:54:38 pictures is this wind or is this water
00:54:40 erosion everyone said water any he
00:54:44 zoomed out I I I was watching something
00:54:46 interesting where they Des they talk
00:54:48 about the the size of the Sphinx head to
00:54:50 the body and that the theory is it was
00:54:52 originally like an Anubis head and a
00:54:54 pharaoh Destro destroyed it and and
00:54:55 sculpted a smaller head of himself
00:54:57 carved his father’s head it was Ram some
00:54:59 say Anubis some say lion whatever it was
00:55:03 this picture doesn’t do justice for how
00:55:04 awkwardly small it actually is and on
00:55:06 top of it look how pristine it is in
00:55:08 comparison to the lower half it’s it’s
00:55:10 feasible it’s very reasonable to to
00:55:12 suggest that it was recarved by some
00:55:14 loser pharaoh who wanted you know some
00:55:16 egomaniac it’s like look at me smashes
00:55:19 nose off out of cuz they were so pissed
00:55:20 off they defaced the lion that was a
00:55:23 probably a cat for I imagine it was cat
00:55:25 and by the way like while we’re on the
00:55:26 topic cuz you know the sphin is in
00:55:28 Africa if we look at if you were to go
00:55:30 to Google Earth and zoom out over the
00:55:33 Sahara Desert there is textbook water
00:55:35 stations that blast across the entire
00:55:37 continent that is inexplicable to modern
00:55:40 science I don’t know how this happened
00:55:42 but to me it sounds like related to a
00:55:43 geomagnetic or excuse me a a pole
00:55:46 reversal an actual flip because what
00:55:48 would cause in going back to that Adam
00:55:49 and Eve story it talks about Continental
00:55:51 size waves 2 miles high with, mph winds
00:55:56 that blew and and and essentially just
00:55:58 destroyed the Earth and if you look at
00:56:00 the Sahara Desert from space you could
00:56:02 see these textbooks durations that you
00:56:03 teach of water erosion and it’s it’s
00:56:06 it’s on a level that’s un you know
00:56:08 unfathomably larger than anything we’ve
00:56:10 ever seen I imagine it’s from the
00:56:12 cometary impact North America 12,800
00:56:14 years ago that melted the GLA the
00:56:16 glaciers but then Jimmy and I were
00:56:18 talking and he mentioned that you
00:56:19 thought maybe it was related to the pole
00:56:21 shifts as well that the maybe the reason
00:56:23 why comets struck North America and in
00:56:25 North Asia was because our poles were
00:56:27 our magnetic field was down it wasn’t
00:56:29 comets what what caused the the great
00:56:32 melt 12,800 years ago from your side so
00:56:35 from your impact these
00:56:37 impactors they don’t just show up 12,000
00:56:39 years ago but 24 36 48 60 72 they’re on
00:56:45 a cycle as well and so one impactor
00:56:49 can’t hit over and over again and
00:56:50 something big enough where we’re just
00:56:52 going through its debris we’d see it
00:56:55 we’d see it out there I mean we we can
00:56:57 spot comets that are on much longer time
00:57:01 scales out in the Y
00:57:04 Cloud this is where you have to bring in
00:57:09 biblical stuff Stellar chemistry and
00:57:13 astrophysics the sun does go dark a
00:57:16 shell of dust builds around it it will
00:57:18 go dark for about 3 days and it is
00:57:21 because of the galactic magnetic
00:57:23 reversal at the same time that Earth is
00:57:26 triggered by the galactic magnetic
00:57:28 reversal point the sun will be triggered
00:57:30 and the Sun is going to blast off this
00:57:32 shell of dust it’s going to instantly
00:57:35 turn it into plasma and blast it
00:57:38 everywhere it’s what I call the solar
00:57:41 micronova that is the
00:57:44 impactors they get blasted through the
00:57:46 entire solar system it’s pieces of the
00:57:48 Sun that are actually blasting away it’s
00:57:51 I mean technically is it really all that
00:57:53 different from getting hit by Comet or
00:57:55 asteroid no but it’s an important
00:57:57 distinction and one thing to touch on
00:57:59 that is that if the North American ice
00:58:02 shelf got hit by Cosmic impacts has been
00:58:04 you know widely suggested the issue I
00:58:06 have for it is then why didn’t it just
00:58:07 refreeze like maybe it melted it and it
00:58:09 caused some havoc on Earth but then over
00:58:11 time it would refreeze this is why I’m
00:58:13 more inclined to to align with the pull
00:58:14 shift Theory which is that it flipped
00:58:17 and then it just stayed thaw maybe Tim B
00:58:20 brought up some of these AF African
00:58:22 striations that you were talking about
00:58:23 Jimmy these are these left to right
00:58:25 L scoll out even further yeah all right
00:58:27 right there these lines drawn across
00:58:30 west to east or whatever Direction these
00:58:31 are called striations and it’s made by
00:58:33 mass erosion this is water erosion this
00:58:35 is not wind erosion because if you zoom
00:58:37 in you could see the sand dunes within
00:58:38 them um and I’d scroll out go all go up
00:58:41 to the left scroll in now right I wish I
00:58:45 could show you give me one of the names
00:58:47 uh well this is just to anyone listening
00:58:49 this over the rot structure commonly
00:58:51 referred to as the ey of the Sahara in
00:58:52 the country of morania so if you were
00:58:54 scroll let me step away from the mic
00:58:56 yeah this looks like the the capital of
00:58:58 Atlantis for my my view it matches more
00:59:00 than a dozen similarities to what ploh
00:59:02 had described that ocean sand and and
00:59:04 all those white blemishes is salt by the
00:59:06 way wow which makes me think that the
00:59:08 ocean had blasted over it and was
00:59:11 there’s a really interesting map that
00:59:12 talks about how ancient coastlines
00:59:14 affected modern voting patterns have you
00:59:16 seen it say that again ancient
00:59:19 coastlines affect modern voting voting
00:59:21 patterns in the United States tell us
00:59:22 more so the uh uh I don’t know exactly
00:59:27 what combination of chemicals but I was
00:59:30 a they show a map where the coastline
00:59:33 used to be in the South uh in like uh
00:59:36 Alabama Arkansas Mississippi Georgia in
00:59:38 the middle of the states is this band
00:59:39 that used to be Coastline which leaves a
00:59:42 bunch of sediment and minerals later on
00:59:46 as the the coastline Retreats you then
00:59:49 have very fertile soil you then have
00:59:51 plantation owners coming to bring Farms
00:59:54 bringing slaves the slaves densely
00:59:57 populate this band of fertile soil and
01:00:00 now you have this chunk of voting block
01:00:02 that’s predominantly uh uh you know
01:00:04 Democrat voters interesting that’s wild
01:00:06 because of where the coastline used to
01:00:07 be and then how humans reacted to the
01:00:09 fertile soil that was there you get the
01:00:10 point that’s wild and since we’re
01:00:11 talking about the south you should look
01:00:12 at the 10,000 year old Forest uh
01:00:15 underneath the Gulf of Mexico just uh
01:00:17 south of
01:00:18 Louisiana that’s check it out give that
01:00:21 a Google let’s let’s let’s let’s let’s
01:00:23 wrap up the rad structure real quick
01:00:24 then I’ll Google the 10,000 year old
01:00:25 Forest under water so awesome we’re get
01:00:28 wild so
01:00:30 uh why don’t we just I don’t know go to
01:00:33 the rot structure and then excavate so
01:00:35 it is forbidden the mortanian government
01:00:38 uh is protecting their gold so there are
01:00:39 vast gold deposits in morania and what’s
01:00:42 interesting about this so I’ve I’ve
01:00:43 talked about this in depth that this I
01:00:45 consider the rot structure the most
01:00:46 likely location for the Lost ancient
01:00:48 city of Atlantis as described by Plato
01:00:51 um that story is not a Disney movie it
01:00:52 originates from the Egyptians that said
01:00:54 there colonist who started over new from
01:00:56 a a destroyed civilization and um
01:00:59 Atlantis was said to have an abundance
01:01:01 of gold well which interesting is that
01:01:03 prior to the discovery of gold in North
01:01:05 America uh and this is by the way I’m
01:01:07 citing the ancient uh resources of um
01:01:12 What’s the title of it’s from 1852 this
01:01:14 is an actual document of ancient
01:01:15 resources out of morania and up until
01:01:18 that point the vast majority of gold
01:01:20 that was sent to to Europe came right
01:01:22 out of morania so I had some buddies
01:01:24 that went to morania uh josa gson World
01:01:26 attorney of media to give him a shout
01:01:27 out and the uh and as well as Graham uh
01:01:30 forgive me archaic lens on Twitter I got
01:01:32 to give him the shout out he went there
01:01:33 with ground PR chaining radar and he
01:01:34 threatened them with imprisonment if
01:01:35 they were to use it so like there’s gold
01:01:37 there and so that’s the number one
01:01:38 reason um what what is the official
01:01:40 explanation for the creation of the uh
01:01:43 rot structure rot rot it’s pronounced
01:01:45 many different ways um what is the
01:01:47 mainstream explanation for how this look
01:01:49 can we pull this up real quick you take
01:01:51 a look at this and uh zoom out and then
01:01:55 Zoom back in this is mindblowing the eye
01:01:57 of the Sahara it is this gigantic circle
01:02:00 with concentric circles uh going into it
01:02:03 what is the official explanation to what
01:02:05 would have created something like this
01:02:06 they say that it that the consensus this
01:02:08 is it is still mysterious um
01:02:11 scientifically mysterious it is like no
01:02:13 other site anywhere else on Earth but
01:02:14 it’s considered to be a collapsed
01:02:16 volcanic Dome and what’s interesting
01:02:19 about this is that it has concentric
01:02:20 circles and Atlantis was described to
01:02:22 having concentric circles specifically
01:02:23 three of water two of land which matches
01:02:25 the rot it also was said to have an
01:02:27 opening to the Sea at the South which if
01:02:28 you look if you scan if you pan out just
01:02:30 a smidgen look to the South you can
01:02:32 clearly see runoff and all of those
01:02:34 white blemishes inside the r shot is
01:02:36 salt how long have they put the ban on
01:02:38 Excavating there like when did that
01:02:39 start there there’s no ban you’re just
01:02:41 not you I mean well you’re not allowed
01:02:43 to I don’t know when it started and and
01:02:45 I can’t tell you how long that will go
01:02:46 for the mortanian government like I hate
01:02:48 to say it but it’s it’s as Third World
01:02:49 As It Gets it’s the middle of nowhere
01:02:51 it’s abject poverty if there ever was
01:02:52 such a thing it’s right there it is you
01:02:55 there’s no such thing as McDonald’s in
01:02:56 morania like this place is are there are
01:02:59 there records of people going there
01:03:00 before the mortanian government sure
01:03:02 people have gone there and looked around
01:03:03 it it’s been studied to see if it was
01:03:05 the result of a there’s no McDonald’s in
01:03:06 morania I don’t believe that I think
01:03:08 that you could double check I could be
01:03:09 wrong on that I think it’s an underwater
01:03:11 geyser that underground water geyser
01:03:14 that tried to erupt and couldn’t and
01:03:15 then hit the surface and cause ripples
01:03:17 isn’t there one of these on Mars you
01:03:18 know I saw yes bring that up it’s wait
01:03:21 no there is no McDonald we got to find
01:03:22 the mar there’s
01:03:25 so post we got this is what I’m talking
01:03:27 about like to travel out there like so
01:03:30 it is you have to have resources it’s
01:03:32 250 Mi Inland off the Atlantic coast and
01:03:35 there’s not even real not there’s not
01:03:37 even real roads out there it is
01:03:38 inhospitable there’s no water it’s
01:03:40 desolate um and you know it’s just it’s
01:03:44 one of those places that’s hard to get
01:03:45 funding to get out there think it’s
01:03:46 actually gold oring was was was was
01:03:48 Atlantis more advanced than we are now
01:03:50 or is that just much more advanced much
01:03:52 more advanced much more iracy but I
01:03:55 think that there was a Lost Civilization
01:03:56 on Earth that created Feats that we are
01:03:58 Inc I shouldn’t say incapable of things
01:04:00 that create let me give you let me give
01:04:02 you an example to under so people
01:04:04 listening can understand the
01:04:05 accomplishments of of the Ancients there
01:04:08 is a statue in Egypt in luxer called the
01:04:10 ramum statue it is a th000 tons that was
01:04:13 carved out of one solid piece of granite
01:04:15 stone that was moved approximately 150
01:04:17 miles 1,000 tons there’s a few 720 ton
01:04:21 stones that were removed 500 miles or
01:04:24 let say 400 excuse me um the in in 200
01:04:29 was it 15 or 12 doesn’t matter the Los
01:04:30 Angeles County Museum of Art moved a 340
01:04:33 ton Stone just over 106 mil it took a
01:04:37 year of planning they had to custom
01:04:38 build a 260 foot long trailer truck
01:04:41 around the stone had 198 Wheels 44 axles
01:04:45 this this was an unbelievable
01:04:46 undertaking for us to move a 340 ton
01:04:49 Stone and somehow the Egyptians moved
01:04:50 something that was three times as heavy
01:04:52 with primitive methods it is e they they
01:04:55 had big horns you see this one and they
01:04:58 they they would all stand next to it and
01:04:59 blow the horns vibr this the W Jericho
01:05:03 story so actually I built I I built I
01:05:05 have this on my YouTube channel I built
01:05:06 a remote control can of green tea by uh
01:05:09 taking a can of green tea and then I put
01:05:11 a block on top with two Motors and I put
01:05:14 the bottom of a can of green tea on one
01:05:16 of the motors so when it spun it created
01:05:17 a wobble and this would cause the can to
01:05:19 vibrate and the weight would pull it
01:05:21 forward and you could actually make it
01:05:23 so the you would turn it I have the
01:05:25 video on my YouTube uh the way it would
01:05:27 turn is you’d reduce the speed of the
01:05:29 motor and it would cause the can to spin
01:05:30 in circles and then if you increase the
01:05:32 speed it would drag in the direction of
01:05:34 the of the motor so it was just
01:05:36 literally a can of green tea that would
01:05:38 float across the table through vibration
01:05:39 my theory of these Big Blocks is that
01:05:41 they attached them to hot air balloons
01:05:42 that they had gigantic they had this
01:05:44 thing called The V uh the in the Indian
01:05:46 Hindu texts and uh it was a Giant
01:05:48 floating city on hot air balloons so I
01:05:51 think they attached these these blocks
01:05:52 to like a thousand hot air balloons and
01:05:55 then they would like with ropes just
01:05:57 guide the blocks along you know for 100
01:05:59 miles and walk it to its destination
01:06:01 this this how they did it it’s very
01:06:03 obvious something like resonant frequenc
01:06:05 I mean I’ve been watching Jimmy’s expose
01:06:08 on on these for a while you’ve been
01:06:10 doing a great job with that on on X
01:06:12 formerly Twitter the only thing I can
01:06:14 think of is initially there were two
01:06:16 ideas that came to my head one okay are
01:06:18 these cast somehow what were they
01:06:21 literally cast in place
01:06:24 um that one’s hard I can’t say it’s
01:06:27 impossible but that one’s hard to wrap
01:06:28 your head around and hard to believe
01:06:29 that’s the answer if they had a way to
01:06:33 through resonant frequencies vibrate
01:06:36 these Stones that’s the only other thing
01:06:38 I’ve ever been able to think of you guys
01:06:40 ever uh you guys should watch Dr Stone
01:06:42 have you ever heard of Dr Stone no it’s
01:06:44 a manga anime about for some reason at
01:06:47 some point everyone turn every every
01:06:49 human turns to Stone okay and then
01:06:51 several thousand years later this super
01:06:53 smart High School Prodigy awakens from
01:06:55 Stone it’s like Magic School Bus for
01:06:57 Japanese kids but it’s a lot of fun
01:06:59 because it explores this idea of what
01:07:01 would happen if uh so after everyone
01:07:03 turns to Stone the people on the
01:07:04 International Space Station still alive
01:07:05 not Stone they land back on Earth they
01:07:08 have all this modern knowledge and our
01:07:10 scientists what can they do they can’t
01:07:13 make iron they they can do almost
01:07:15 nothing they make concrete they can do
01:07:17 really basic things and so the only way
01:07:21 what they decide to do is create 100
01:07:22 stories to pass down generation after
01:07:24 generation to try and give them a
01:07:25 general understanding of things they
01:07:26 once knew but of course after several
01:07:28 Generations it’s all mythological mumbo
01:07:30 jumbo right so it’s it’s a great show
01:07:34 and uh it it’s mostly like Hey we’re
01:07:36 going to we’re going to make uh nitric
01:07:37 acid and they explain the chemical
01:07:39 composition how to find iron how to find
01:07:41 magnets it’s it’s fun stuff but uh the
01:07:44 interesting concept is if there was an
01:07:47 ancient civilization maybe humans who uh
01:07:50 for some reason came to Earth and tried
01:07:52 to colonize maybe following some
01:07:54 disaster I’ll put it this way let me
01:07:56 tell you a story Venus We Believe
01:07:59 suffered a run a runaway greenhous
01:08:01 effect have you have you heard ever read
01:08:02 about that yeah I I I don’t know if it
01:08:05 was ever anything like Earth but uh well
01:08:08 so there there are theories that Venus
01:08:09 was once Earth Lake and that it’s
01:08:11 suffering a runaway greenhouse effect
01:08:12 due to carbon dioxide water vapor also
01:08:15 the sun expanding Perhaps Perhaps and so
01:08:18 for whatever reason it is it is a
01:08:21 sulfuric planet we tried Landing a drone
01:08:23 on it it just destroyed instantly very
01:08:25 dense chemical gases and things like
01:08:28 this so imagine Venus is once earthlike
01:08:30 Earth is marsik or you know just
01:08:34 underdeveloped and a runaway gr’s effect
01:08:36 due to massive expansion of a
01:08:37 civilization is destroying the planet so
01:08:40 they decide to create the ark project a
01:08:43 military project where they take the DNA
01:08:44 male and female of as many animals as
01:08:46 possible loaded onto a ship and then try
01:08:48 to terraform Earth in the event of a
01:08:50 disaster which wipes out Venus it
01:08:53 eventually does
01:08:54 the people who are able to escape in
01:08:55 time on this single ship come and
01:08:57 establish a city on Earth but of course
01:09:00 a bunch of you know scientists aren’t
01:09:02 going to have the capability you know a
01:09:04 guy who knows how to you know work uh
01:09:06 let’s say minerals is not going to have
01:09:07 the same knowledge as somebody who knows
01:09:08 how to work computers and So eventually
01:09:10 the system starts to break down they
01:09:12 don’t actually have the Civ Elon Musk
01:09:14 talks about how we need more people
01:09:16 right the more people you have the more
01:09:17 Specialists you have but a dude who is
01:09:19 re like a guy who’s a master of building
01:09:23 computers from Parts can’t actually make
01:09:25 those parts he knows how to put the
01:09:27 computer together the guy the guy who
01:09:29 knows how to make the Silicon chips in
01:09:30 the factory doesn’t know how to actually
01:09:32 build the computer and so uh there’s
01:09:34 actually a book I think I forgot who
01:09:36 wrote the book was it Ashley St Clair or
01:09:38 it’s uh uh what’s it called like no one
01:09:40 makes a pizza or takes a village or
01:09:41 whatever I don’t right the general idea
01:09:43 being to make a pizza you need a farmer
01:09:46 you need someone who makes tomatoes you
01:09:47 need someone to make tomato tomato sauce
01:09:48 you need someone who does the cheese you
01:09:50 need the baker someone who can make the
01:09:51 oven none of these individual ual knows
01:09:54 how to do it so if there was outside of
01:09:57 this you know sci-fi Theory a
01:09:58 civilization that was fleeing Advanced
01:10:01 came here they would be able to
01:10:03 establish something great but after a
01:10:05 few Generations it would completely
01:10:06 collapse this is why I don’t think the
01:10:08 ancient civilizations were more advanced
01:10:10 than us because I’ve never seen evidence
01:10:11 of ancient steel like there’s no it’d be
01:10:14 gone very quickly even stain the steel
01:10:16 be gone there’s no evidence of any
01:10:19 technology that they have that’s more
01:10:21 that that we’ve found archaeologically
01:10:22 that’s more advanced disagree maybe
01:10:24 differently Advanced I would say
01:10:26 differently Advanced there’s a Temple
01:10:29 that was they had to excavate it
01:10:31 completely in Northern India and it’s
01:10:34 got these huge Granite columns and not
01:10:37 only is the is the construction of this
01:10:41 thing so long ago incredible and the
01:10:44 burying of it so incredible but they
01:10:47 found that when you knocked on these
01:10:49 giant columns they each resounded with a
01:10:53 different frequency and the frequencies
01:10:56 they resounded on were like in a pattern
01:10:59 and like we don’t know how to make
01:11:00 Granite do that now we have no idea how
01:11:02 to make Granite do that so I an
01:11:04 interesting concept too is uh Metals
01:11:06 would oxidize they would they’re going
01:11:08 to they’re going to effectively
01:11:09 evaporate Stone right not so much and
01:11:12 that’s the thing so like like when it
01:11:14 comes to the Granite so they say that
01:11:16 Egyptians were a Bronze Age culture
01:11:18 which means their advanced form of
01:11:19 tooling was copper based and and when
01:11:21 you look like people have done modern
01:11:23 test to try and cut and carve Granite
01:11:25 with bronze tooling and it feels so
01:11:27 miserably so like talking about like
01:11:30 whether Granite could have been
01:11:31 geopolymer it’s like the the quaries are
01:11:33 there in Egypt and they’ve done um um
01:11:36 what is it Geo fingerprinting something
01:11:38 fingerprinting of the stone and it
01:11:40 matches and the thing about Granite so
01:11:41 unique is it has Quartzsite in it it’s
01:11:43 formed with a massive amount of pressure
01:11:45 it’s volcanic in nature heat um and
01:11:47 we’re not able to replicate that and so
01:11:49 I’d say that the the only thing that is
01:11:51 left is the stone and the stone can last
01:11:53 millions and millions of years you think
01:11:54 they made Granite no I I I disagree I
01:11:57 say they do not a lot of people are
01:11:58 suggesting that and I’m not saying I
01:12:00 disagree entirely with the concept of
01:12:02 geopolymer but when it comes to Granite
01:12:04 no i’ I’ve see absolutely no evidence
01:12:07 what if the ancient
01:12:08 civilization was humans that came to
01:12:11 Earth and terraformed it have you guys
01:12:12 seen moonfall that movie no no not yet
01:12:15 the the I’m going to spoiler alert the
01:12:17 Moon is a uh the Moon is a space station
01:12:20 an ancient civilization of super
01:12:22 Advanced humans created a bunch of space
01:12:24 stations and AI started destroying and
01:12:26 wiping out their colonies so they
01:12:27 launched these space stations to go and
01:12:29 create and terraform planets to create
01:12:31 Havens safe havens and that’s what they
01:12:32 did and then the AI is coming to kill
01:12:34 them or something like that sh Shannon
01:12:35 A1 in the chat in the chat I said that
01:12:38 really weird uh echoed what I was
01:12:39 thinking is that water did they use
01:12:41 water to drill they got water drills
01:12:43 like so the point the point I was
01:12:44 actually just about to make was uh if
01:12:47 there was some kind of advanced
01:12:48 civilization why the assumption that
01:12:49 they no longer exist when we when uh you
01:12:52 know I’m watching these videos of a guy
01:12:54 exploring abandoned houses I mean look
01:12:57 you watch a video of a guy exploring an
01:12:58 abandoned laboratory you don’t assume
01:13:00 humans have been wiped out perhaps the
01:13:02 reason why they say no one can go to the
01:13:03 the Rashad structure is because it’s an
01:13:06 abandoned warehouse of super Advanced
01:13:09 civilization that still exists and so
01:13:13 you know we have Laboratories I watch
01:13:14 this video it’s crazy a guy says there’s
01:13:16 an an underground laboratory in Chicago
01:13:19 you can get to through tunnels and he’s
01:13:20 there’s like specimens there’s blood
01:13:22 it’s creepy as hell you don’t look at
01:13:24 that and say humans no longer exist you
01:13:25 go he will be arrested if he’s found in
01:13:28 there because it’s dangerous and they
01:13:30 don’t want you going in there so perhaps
01:13:32 this ancient civilization that
01:13:33 terraforms or creates all of these
01:13:35 things they’re still around we’re just
01:13:37 shuffling through their refu and some
01:13:39 they don’t care about there’s humans
01:13:40 everywhere and some they do care about
01:13:42 because like if they go there they’re
01:13:43 going to find our cell phones yeah under
01:13:45 it’s possible that we got underground C
01:13:48 but that the way that Atlantis met its
01:13:50 end so abruptly makes me think that they
01:13:52 didn’t have a chance to Escape yeah in
01:13:54 the in the Bible not to be a bible
01:13:55 thumper but it says that the event comes
01:13:57 like a thief in the night that it
01:13:58 catches everyone off guard a thief in
01:13:59 the night just unexpected um and real
01:14:02 quick to answer uh in the chat about the
01:14:04 cutting stone with water you can cut
01:14:06 diamond with water the issue is that the
01:14:08 we have to use pumps that are you know
01:14:10 runoff engines Motors to do that so it’s
01:14:13 like if you were to use water as a force
01:14:15 to cut stone how would you get it at
01:14:17 such a PSI level to to be able to do so
01:14:20 without modern machinery and equipment
01:14:21 and hydraulics and other things this is
01:14:23 why Dr Stone is BAS AF because they they
01:14:27 like you watch the process or it’s it’s
01:14:30 a show it’s smart though how to melt How
01:14:32 do you how do you actually melt metals
01:14:34 to smelt and they show you know pumping
01:14:37 oxygen and the challenge of humans
01:14:40 trying to pump oxygen into a furnace to
01:14:41 get it hot enough and then creating a
01:14:43 water wheel which automates the process
01:14:45 and using gears to increase the speed at
01:14:48 which you can pump oxygen it’s fun stuff
01:14:50 that’s cool by the way if you’re talking
01:14:51 about like space stations and other
01:14:53 things
01:14:54 have you guys researched the moon and
01:14:55 all the anomalies about it that are just
01:14:57 scientific Mysteries well it’s now
01:14:59 mainstream accepted that the Moon is a
01:15:00 space station it’s Hollow no I’m kidding
01:15:02 it’s a hollow well here’s the thing
01:15:03 though it has been suggested to be a
01:15:05 hollowed out planetoid and what’s
01:15:07 interesting about it is that when they
01:15:08 you know back in the 60s and 70s when
01:15:10 they threw the Saturn 5 rocket into it
01:15:12 it vibrated it ring like a bell it R it
01:15:15 was described as ringing like a bell so
01:15:16 the astronauts went there six times and
01:15:18 they set up or was it five six they went
01:15:20 there failed one time but anyways um
01:15:22 they they put down seismographs and what
01:15:24 happened was when it’s been hit by
01:15:25 meteorites as well as a Saturn 5 launch
01:15:27 vehicle that they threw into it it it
01:15:29 reverberated between the seism grass for
01:15:31 for like eight hours and so the
01:15:34 scientist that examined the the um data
01:15:36 on it said it appears to be Hollow is
01:15:39 because it reverberated like a bell it
01:15:41 doesn’t mean it sounded like a bell
01:15:42 there’s no sound in space but I think
01:15:44 the Moon is a mausoleum and then we’ve
01:15:46 been burying people there do you know
01:15:47 about this like there’s those spaceships
01:15:49 missions going up there to bury Arthur C
01:15:50 Clark and other people from Star Trek
01:15:52 that one surprising I have no evidence
01:15:54 for there’s something so weird well tell
01:15:56 me more about that I’ve never they’ve
01:15:57 been they’ve been do I think celestus is
01:15:59 the company and they they you buy plots
01:16:02 and they they I think the mission failed
01:16:04 last week for whatever reason but
01:16:05 they’re going to go again next next
01:16:07 month but uh they have a two ships that
01:16:10 they’re going to send out there one of
01:16:11 them has all these like uh plots of
01:16:14 people like Arthur C Clark and his wife
01:16:16 I believe and SAR Trek cast members and
01:16:19 the other one has DNA from George
01:16:21 Washington JFK and that one’s going to
01:16:23 be sent into deep space so I I I’ve been
01:16:26 reliably told that the the Moon is a
01:16:29 graveyard already and that we just keep
01:16:30 populating it that makes a lot of sense
01:16:33 I mean they fire who they fired huness
01:16:35 Thompson out of a cannon you know like
01:16:37 Rich crazy people do rich crazy things
01:16:39 and you Elon Musk is gonna be like bury
01:16:41 me on Mars and there’s going to be a
01:16:43 dead guy on Mars uh so popular mechanic
01:16:45 says the is a famous quote the moon does
01:16:47 ring like a bell seismic events last
01:16:50 longer on Earth however they say that
01:16:52 doesn’t mean it’s Hollow right but
01:16:54 there’s something about its density that
01:16:56 the the scientific equations it doesn’t
01:16:58 make sense that it’s so far less dense
01:16:59 based on its mass or it has less mass of
01:17:01 what its size is um and one of the
01:17:03 things that’s been suggested in that it
01:17:05 being a hollow out planetoid is that it
01:17:06 was the ark it was brought over here and
01:17:08 that um the reason why it’s so you know
01:17:11 it glows so much with the reflection of
01:17:13 the sun is that that’s metallic dust
01:17:15 that’s that’s that’s it’s definitely
01:17:17 metallic dust the movie moonfall
01:17:18 basically is that the Moon is a giant
01:17:20 space station Arc to predictive progam I
01:17:24 just talked about this in in my show
01:17:26 this morning so they’ve known that the
01:17:28 dust on the moon is wildly electrostatic
01:17:31 but they’re now discovering it likely
01:17:33 has magnetic anomalies
01:17:36 and you’re talking about Metal oh maybe
01:17:39 it’s when the sun ejaculates all that
01:17:41 metal dust I’m sorry what ejects ejects
01:17:44 is the right word when it when it just
01:17:46 blasts out big every 12,000 years when
01:17:50 it has these solar what do you call them
01:17:51 minor ejections or something microv
01:17:53 microvas that the dust is being
01:17:55 magnetically suuck onto the moon because
01:17:57 the Moon is magnetic coronal mass
01:17:59 ejaculation yeah Mass ejaculation and I
01:18:01 think the the inside the inners of the
01:18:03 moon is a web of ma of matter that it’s
01:18:06 not Hollow like empty it’s just like web
01:18:09 Cavern because what happened probably is
01:18:11 that it was when another planet Thea
01:18:13 theoretically hit Earth and then came
01:18:15 out the other side you know four billion
01:18:17 years ago and there was just this
01:18:18 floating ball of magma cooled down into
01:18:21 our
01:18:21 moon physics of that have been disputed
01:18:24 and you should look at real quick I
01:18:25 don’t me to cut you off uh just to put
01:18:27 this out Bring up uh pictures of the
01:18:28 craters on the moon on how wide they are
01:18:31 in uh comparison to how their depth it’s
01:18:34 something weird they’re like hundreds of
01:18:35 miles wide and only a few miles deep
01:18:37 while you do that you going to say sorry
01:18:40 what uh you take a look at the Earth’s
01:18:42 magnetic field and people talk about
01:18:44 Sci-Fi movies and spaceships and uh uh
01:18:48 they we always imagine that a a colony
01:18:50 ship headed from Earth to like Alpha
01:18:52 centuri is this like oblong device and
01:18:54 it’s got like a rotating thing on it why
01:18:56 would we just build a sphere we should
01:18:58 and then if you had a sphere and you
01:19:00 wanted to create a shield so in movies
01:19:03 how about um in Whata call it in
01:19:05 passengers have you guys seen that one
01:19:06 yeah decent a space debris hits the ship
01:19:10 and causes all these problems okay well
01:19:12 why not create a magnetic force field a
01:19:14 a strong magnetic field that would
01:19:16 deflect particles as you travel through
01:19:18 space right in which case your spaceship
01:19:20 would be a sphere with a magne core
01:19:23 spinning to generate a force you could
01:19:25 also have another sphere around you
01:19:27 rotating that’s sucking the debris onto
01:19:29 it like the Moon is sucking the debris
01:19:31 onto it apparently it’s kind of a
01:19:33 deflector yeah that just reminded me I
01:19:35 saw article the other day about a black
01:19:37 glass ball floating near California
01:19:39 Airfield seconds before suddenly
01:19:40 disappearing you guys see that how based
01:19:42 would it be if like the moon was the
01:19:45 space station Arc that ancient Advanced
01:19:47 humans came to Earth and terraformed it
01:19:50 and uh uh were seeding life Precambrian
01:19:52 EXP expion all that stuff but due to
01:19:54 some kind of political conflict or
01:19:56 catastrophe humans lost the means to F
01:20:00 themselves back to the spaceship and
01:20:02 they were like we need to get back up
01:20:04 there and and get our gear Scientology
01:20:07 the ancient Democrats destroyed it like
01:20:09 they do
01:20:10 everything I got to go back to what we
01:20:12 were just talking about about the the
01:20:14 these block these tons thousand you get
01:20:17 locked out of your car and you’re
01:20:19 sitting there staying how about this
01:20:20 Tesla’s a great example there’s a funny
01:20:22 story a lot of these where a guy’s phone
01:20:24 died can’t get in his car and he’s like
01:20:26 I could charge my phone in my car if I
01:20:28 could just get inside but my phone is
01:20:30 dead and don’t have my key on me so he’s
01:20:31 sitting there like what do I do you got
01:20:33 to go charge your phone so you get a
01:20:34 bunch of these ancient Advanced humans
01:20:36 they are coming down for a mission to
01:20:38 Earth the guy who’s there’s very few of
01:20:41 them something happens shutting down the
01:20:43 space station the humans left on Earth
01:20:44 are like our ship is disabled we can’t
01:20:47 get back to the station what do we do
01:20:49 and then sure enough the stories are
01:20:50 long lost humans eventually make their
01:20:52 way back to the moon and then once they
01:20:54 land they’re like holy crap now imagine
01:20:56 this if and this is wild conspiracy
01:21:00 sciencey nonsense imagine the United
01:21:02 States no one knows this the stories are
01:21:04 long lost to history they land on the
01:21:06 moon and they’re like uh boss this is a
01:21:09 massively Advanced space station to
01:21:12 accommodate human biology we can’t
01:21:15 understand any of the language but uh yo
01:21:17 this is a spaceship they would they
01:21:19 would be like it’s ours the US
01:21:21 government would be like it’s ours US
01:21:23 unless they made a doesn’t is there that
01:21:24 theory that Eisenhower made the pack
01:21:26 with the aliens to what I’m saying no no
01:21:28 I’m saying there’s no aliens I’m saying
01:21:30 it’s us humans colonize Earth they have
01:21:34 this big space station imagine there’s
01:21:36 thousands how cool would this be the
01:21:37 Galactic Federation is just humans
01:21:39 there’s thousands of planets ter that
01:21:40 have been terraformed and colonized by
01:21:42 humans this one we are on we got locked
01:21:45 out of our car yep thousands upon
01:21:48 thousands of generations later we just
01:21:49 totally lost access to this technology
01:21:51 finally we we we civilization rebuilt to
01:21:54 the point to where we can get to the
01:21:55 moon Americans land there and then
01:21:57 they’re like guys holy crap what’s wild
01:22:01 about this is it said that you know God
01:22:02 cast The Devil Out of Heaven you know
01:22:03 like we put us maybe we’re the devil um
01:22:05 and and then you know we the Nephilim
01:22:08 breed with the women of they came onto
01:22:09 the women of Earth and had children the
01:22:11 great Kings of own of renown the great
01:22:13 Kings of old I put that backwards but um
01:22:15 like it does kind of describe this if
01:22:17 you look at say multiple religions
01:22:18 around the world discuss beings coming
01:22:20 here and and breeding with the women and
01:22:22 with wild is that the Aboriginal
01:22:24 Aborigines in Australia as well as I
01:22:26 don’t know if it’s the hopy Indians but
01:22:27 one of the Native American tribes
01:22:28 described beings coming from within the
01:22:31 Earth so here here’s my here’s my
01:22:34 story life is on Venus the the
01:22:37 civilization on Venus is destroying the
01:22:38 planet through pollution and just bad
01:22:41 politics they create a space station to
01:22:43 come to Earth and begin terraforming it
01:22:46 they do eventually human civilization
01:22:49 it’s Advanced as wiped out and there’s
01:22:51 very few maybe only a thousand people
01:22:52 people left on the space station trying
01:22:54 to rebuild a civilization on Earth after
01:22:57 a few generations and with advanced
01:22:58 technology these people live a lot
01:23:00 longer they’re in a space station you
01:23:02 know after a few Generations one of the
01:23:04 higher ranking guys it’s military of
01:23:06 course because if if there were to be a
01:23:08 catastrophe on this planet and it was
01:23:10 going to wipe out all the major cities
01:23:12 the power structure would be
01:23:13 authoritarian and militaristic the
01:23:15 military is going to be more likely to
01:23:16 survive if you want to survive with us
01:23:17 you do as you’re told he’s the boss he’s
01:23:19 the general so you’ve got this space
01:23:21 station in military command it is the
01:23:24 decimation of humanity there are the
01:23:26 very very few left and you must do as
01:23:27 you’re told or we’ll all die like have
01:23:29 you ever seen Battlestar Galactica long
01:23:31 time ago so there’s a sh battar
01:23:34 Galactica there are 12 Colony planets
01:23:36 they invent ai ai kills everybody blows
01:23:39 everything up all that’s left of
01:23:40 humanity is a fleet of ships one of the
01:23:42 ships produces fuel and so the people
01:23:45 who are there must work 24/7 with no
01:23:47 breaks and no freedom and when they
01:23:49 Revolt they’re beaten and imprisoned and
01:23:51 the guy running the show is like if they
01:23:53 stop working we die you have no choice
01:23:55 it’s militaristic rule so anyway you
01:23:57 have this this Arc project terraforming
01:24:00 earth when eventually after a certain
01:24:01 amount of time one of the high ranking
01:24:03 guys says we need to establish civilian
01:24:05 government military government will no
01:24:07 longer function people are are who are
01:24:10 working down on Earth are starting to
01:24:11 get angry we up here have access to this
01:24:13 great technology they’re down there
01:24:15 living in squalor we have to change this
01:24:17 fight breaks out the people on Earth are
01:24:19 looking up in the sky seeing battleships
01:24:21 shooting at each other a great m in
01:24:22 heaven between one of the higher ranking
01:24:25 officers and the military leader this
01:24:28 conflict ends up separating causing an
01:24:30 enough collateral damage that those who
01:24:32 are operating the ship lose control or
01:24:34 contact of the people here on Earth who
01:24:36 tell a bunch of stories Generations
01:24:39 separate honestly something like that
01:24:42 is as believable as any other story um
01:24:46 the only part of it I would say might
01:24:48 not fit as Venus I don’t know if you
01:24:49 know how long a day is on Venus no how
01:24:52 long longer than its year it’s been slow
01:24:56 so slowly that oh that’s that’s easily
01:24:59 explainable because the ancient
01:25:01 civilization what caused the the crisis
01:25:03 was their large their their quadruple
01:25:06 hadrin collider caused a does it insert
01:25:09 sci-fi reason why the planet St does it
01:25:11 have no magnetic field cuz it’s not
01:25:13 spinning it has an induced magnetic
01:25:15 field but not an intrinsic one induced
01:25:18 so basically you mean a person put it
01:25:20 there no I’m kidding I mean so the solar
01:25:22 wind blasting the top of the atmosphere
01:25:24 induces a weak magnetic field and
01:25:27 ionosphere around the planet Venus uh
01:25:29 but it doesn’t have one that’s generated
01:25:31 by the planet or the planet’s
01:25:32 interaction with the solar electric
01:25:34 field like Earth does is that because
01:25:36 it’s
01:25:37 spinning um well you
01:25:39 know it’s a good question Mars spins
01:25:43 just fine and it doesn’t have much of an
01:25:45 intrinsic field either is it like the
01:25:48 core of the earth is made of plasma this
01:25:49 is a new Theory I’ve heard so I do think
01:25:52 there’s iron in the outer core of the
01:25:54 planet but the inside I wouldn’t be
01:25:57 surprised if it’s plasma or water and
01:25:59 then sonol luminescent plasma at the
01:26:02 center have you guys ever seen the star
01:26:03 and the jar thing where using just sound
01:26:05 frequencies you can literally create a
01:26:07 star plasma glowing inside of a jar of
01:26:10 water it’s Sono luminescence it’s the
01:26:14 most outrageous thing collapsing bubbles
01:26:17 have hot plasma core this is from
01:26:20 nature.com this is Main ex science I’m
01:26:22 talking about right here this isn’t like
01:26:24 woo woo or anything even remotely not
01:26:26 from Bob’s yeah no like there’s that
01:26:28 shrimp that punches water so it creates
01:26:30 a shock a flash yeah this is from
01:26:31 nature.com they call it a star and a jar
01:26:34 when sound waves Crush bubbles of gas in
01:26:36 a liquid energy is released in a
01:26:38 dramatic burst of heat it’s literally
01:26:40 like a a plasma star inside of water so
01:26:43 it’s basically like like a haduken yeah
01:26:46 like the shrimp the shrimp moves so fast
01:26:48 underwat it creates like a vacuum which
01:26:50 snaps and then creates a flash of light
01:26:52 that’s crazy wa so the pressure sound is
01:26:55 inducing into water is causing plasma
01:26:58 just the pressure I mean it’s it’s the
01:27:00 specific vibration so like the if you go
01:27:04 off of the specific frequency it’s not
01:27:06 going to work and it’s different based
01:27:07 on how much water you have and whether
01:27:10 there’s impurities in the water
01:27:11 something like that so I honestly think
01:27:13 that the vacuum itself is being vibrated
01:27:16 at a certain frequency that’s causing
01:27:17 light to appear like plasma like we it’s
01:27:20 causing the the vacuum to cool down into
01:27:23 light it’s so you know it vibrates it’s
01:27:25 just that right so the the single
01:27:27 greatest scientific failure that we know
01:27:30 of it’s called the vacuum catastrophe
01:27:32 you can you can Google this this one’s
01:27:34 interesting but there’s a difference
01:27:36 between how much energy how much free
01:27:38 Zero Point Energy should be in the
01:27:40 vacuum based on what we can detect and
01:27:43 what mathematics says should be there
01:27:46 and there it’s off by
01:27:49 like an order of magnitude like
01:27:53 billions and billions of orders of
01:27:55 magnitude like it it is the greatest
01:27:58 mistake the largest error in all of
01:28:00 known science it say there’s more energy
01:28:03 we’re supposed to be able to get more
01:28:04 energy out of the VAC there’s supposedly
01:28:06 trillions and trillions and trillions of
01:28:07 times more energy in every little
01:28:11 infimal speck of a vacuum than we know
01:28:15 is there but they just don’t have the
01:28:16 right frequ they haven’t figured out the
01:28:18 right frequency to unlock it or
01:28:19 something we have figured out nothing
01:28:21 we’re ants do you think ancient
01:28:22 civilizations figured out the frequency
01:28:24 to unlock that power maybe maybe I
01:28:26 really so the answer is I don’t know
01:28:28 what I think is that they did things
01:28:30 that exceed our capabilities today to
01:28:32 some extent or they may have found a
01:28:33 different way of doing things that we do
01:28:35 I don’t think there’s anything that they
01:28:36 did that we can’t do it’s just that
01:28:38 there’s some evidence that suggests that
01:28:39 they knew things were capable of things
01:28:41 that they should not have been capable
01:28:43 of based on what we were taught in
01:28:44 school and that’s basically if I had a
01:28:45 thesis that’s it it is it is a fact that
01:28:47 ancient civilizations had technology we
01:28:49 still didn’t do not have today or only
01:28:51 or are only just rediscovering one
01:28:53 example it’s really obvious that I often
01:28:54 bring up is we could not build greater
01:28:57 than eight stories because of the
01:28:58 accumulation of heat at the top of our
01:29:00 buildings because our our Architects and
01:29:02 Engineers were like here’s how you build
01:29:05 a structure you stack blocks on blocks
01:29:07 but in uh Africa there were tribes that
01:29:10 would build Huts that could be very tall
01:29:12 and would pull heat or pull cool air
01:29:14 from uh underground up and funnel the
01:29:17 heat out just through a system of of
01:29:19 like pipes basically and so they
01:29:22 theorized that they they learned how to
01:29:23 do this from anthills ant hills are
01:29:25 built there certain there certain
01:29:26 anthills where it’s really hot that as
01:29:29 the hot air rises it creates a current
01:29:31 and pulls cooler air from lower uh uh
01:29:33 from closer to the ground or underground
01:29:35 and so we invented air conditioning
01:29:38 we’re like if we build these engines
01:29:40 that compress and decompress you know
01:29:42 Freon or whatever we can pull heat and
01:29:44 remove it from the building haha now we
01:29:46 can build greater than eight stories and
01:29:47 then some dude was like if you build a
01:29:49 Channel Through the building the hot air
01:29:51 will just ride up and leave the building
01:29:52 and they went oh so now we have now we
01:29:55 have non- mechanical means to pull cold
01:29:58 air from underground up to the top of
01:29:59 the building because heat rises and it
01:30:00 pulls it up uh you know to a certain
01:30:03 degree you’ll need uh I don’t know
01:30:05 exactly how it works or whatever but I
01:30:06 was watching it was like a like a
01:30:07 science uh History Channel thing or
01:30:09 whatever on Modern structures and now
01:30:11 it’s basically just considered cost
01:30:13 cutting measures if you’re going to
01:30:14 build a skyscraper you want to make sure
01:30:15 that’s naturally pulling cooler air to
01:30:17 avoid the heat getting trapped up top
01:30:19 because it saves energy there those
01:30:21 solar up Towers use that that phenomenon
01:30:24 to actually pull cold air in through the
01:30:26 base and turn generators and then go up
01:30:28 out through the tip but this is so
01:30:30 Randall Carlson has over the last six
01:30:32 months been talking about our
01:30:34 civilization is based on explosion
01:30:36 technology but these ancients were based
01:30:37 on implosion technology and then he
01:30:40 didn’t really back it up he said it on
01:30:41 Rogan’s podcast then he went on to to
01:30:43 unveil this thunderstorm generator uh
01:30:46 Malcolm Malcolm uh Malcolm somebody has
01:30:50 developed this thunderstorm generator
01:30:51 where apparently they’re imploding
01:30:53 bubbles inside of a tank to produce
01:30:55 plasmoids have you guys heard of this
01:30:57 and is it debunked is it real what is it
01:31:00 and if you don’t know there was a guy
01:31:02 when they were trying to invent air
01:31:03 conditioning actually speaking of that
01:31:04 that they thought they could cool The
01:31:05 Atmosphere by explosions in the air
01:31:08 there was I think he had a patent for it
01:31:10 uh before they got that but I don’t know
01:31:11 about this the thunderstorm one any but
01:31:14 they’re they can’t get any more energy
01:31:16 out of it than what they put in but then
01:31:18 you’re saying that there’s energy in the
01:31:19 vacuum that’s untapped so are they
01:31:22 they’re not tapping into that that’s not
01:31:23 what they’re tapping into um they’re
01:31:25 literally just working with the physical
01:31:28 matter that we know about that’s there
01:31:31 how do we feel about particle Smashers
01:31:32 affecting what you guys are talking
01:31:33 about like the the hron all but that one
01:31:36 in particular I think they’re going to
01:31:37 blow us up they’re going to do I don’t
01:31:39 know I have you believe in like the
01:31:40 black hole fear that they were trying to
01:31:42 remember they were sued to shut it down
01:31:43 in 2007 or eight I don’t know what to
01:31:45 think if I to be completely honest I
01:31:47 just don’t know how all that works I
01:31:48 think that they’re they’re messing with
01:31:50 things that they don’t even understand
01:31:52 secr
01:31:56 univis don’t know I have a b feeling
01:31:58 what they’re not to mention what’s that
01:32:00 they have that um that V stuff what’s
01:32:02 that stuff they have in the front of the
01:32:04 it is a completely satanic operation
01:32:06 this is a Satan operation look at their
01:32:08 ceremonies it’s it’s literal satanic
01:32:11 what like oh dude it’s on YouTube you
01:32:13 could look it up you’re talking about
01:32:14 the hron yes they cultists they they
01:32:18 mean so the reaction you’re giving here
01:32:20 wasn’t that your reaction first time you
01:32:22 heard like US Government people
01:32:24 Hollywood people are Satanist like but
01:32:26 now you hear that and you’re like yeah
01:32:28 NASA was founded with Nazis like project
01:32:31 Project Paperclip yeah paperclip W Von
01:32:34 Bron vented the Saturn 5 launch vehicle
01:32:36 he straight up Nazi there pictures of
01:32:38 him next to Hitler a lot of people who
01:32:40 are listening I’m sure a lot of people
01:32:41 know about this but like those who don’t
01:32:42 there were thousands of scientists so at
01:32:44 the collapse of Nazi Germany there was
01:32:46 thousands of top level scientists who uh
01:32:49 you know the Russian government the
01:32:51 United States government they siphoned
01:32:52 them like Hey we’re not going to execute
01:32:53 these people we’re going to make them
01:32:54 work for us and they did and we went to
01:32:56 the moon allegedly because so with the
01:32:59 hron collider being occultists is that
01:33:01 because they’re into sacred geometry
01:33:03 they honestly think they can open a
01:33:05 portal for demons and been they’ve I
01:33:08 know I realize how that sounds but I
01:33:10 mean this is the same guy who’s been
01:33:12 riffing off stuff that you guys have
01:33:14 been pulling up over and over again like
01:33:16 they literally are trying to create
01:33:18 something like a spiritual it’s like a
01:33:20 giant mystery college right the schools
01:33:22 where people talk about portals bringing
01:33:23 beasts in through portals I’ve talked to
01:33:24 women this one woman in particular for
01:33:26 the first Inver world book that claimed
01:33:28 she saw a beast come through a portal uh
01:33:31 at a mystery school they called it and
01:33:33 the the collider the CERN in particular
01:33:35 is super dark wonder I mean they’ve been
01:33:37 looking for the God particle looking for
01:33:39 the God particle B in the presence of
01:33:42 the collisions people are experiencing
01:33:44 visions and they just don’t want to tell
01:33:45 anyone about it but they’re they’re I
01:33:47 think they think that they’re getting
01:33:48 information from interdimensional beings
01:33:50 while they’re high on dial to mean and I
01:33:52 think that they think they’re getting
01:33:53 the secrets of the universe
01:33:55 conspiracy or they actually are getting
01:33:57 you do a hit on Drome and you do some
01:33:59 DMT and you go stand in front of the sir
01:34:01 so hopped up it’s it’s the good stuff um
01:34:04 but honestly um this is the conspiracy I
01:34:06 mean I actually learned this from Alex
01:34:07 Jones who’s been right about just about
01:34:08 everything and and even if people
01:34:10 listening don’t believe in this stuff it
01:34:12 doesn’t matter because that’s what these
01:34:13 lunatics do believe in exactly like they
01:34:16 they were the CERN CERN was sued in 2007
01:34:18 or8 before they flipped it on for the
01:34:19 first time because they physicists who
01:34:21 believed it would create a black hole
01:34:23 that would suck the earth into it
01:34:24 because everyone agreed on both sides of
01:34:26 the lawsuit we create tiny black Hol
01:34:28 microscopic black holes by Smashing
01:34:29 particles together near the speed of
01:34:30 light but the obviously CERN won the
01:34:33 judge uh fa in their favor because they
01:34:36 said uh the microscopic black holes will
01:34:38 fall to the gravity of Earth and then
01:34:40 disappear not be a threat but then the
01:34:41 other people were like but they’re going
01:34:43 to a mass and then turn us into a sphere
01:34:45 of strangeness was the terminology they
01:34:47 used or or like actually suck us into a
01:34:48 black hole and they were talking about
01:34:50 the poles actually during that lawsuit
01:34:52 because they were saying it could turn
01:34:53 into like a I think a one pole a uni
01:34:55 poar a
01:34:57 monopole I forget what the word was but
01:35:00 I got to look at that bring up their
01:35:01 ceremony that they did in front of CERN
01:35:03 you know what I’m talking about this was
01:35:05 this is satanic like watch it like why
01:35:08 who who planned that wait is this the
01:35:09 ritual hoax it’s found footage video
01:35:11 that depicts a supposed occult ritual uh
01:35:14 you’re but apparently it’s a what
01:35:16 article are you citing Wikipedia oh yeah
01:35:18 don’t look that that proves it it’s
01:35:20 called The CERN rual
01:35:23 F no no don’t look at Wikipedia just
01:35:26 look fake Look up the video and we can
01:35:29 all think for ourselves on what they did
01:35:30 in front of CERN and Street
01:35:34 Jun the guardian mock Human Sacrifice at
01:35:37 CERN uh we all we we talked about this
01:35:39 uh uh a while ago yeah when was this
01:35:41 2016 so it wasn’t a don’t put any sound
01:35:44 on I want them putting us under a spell
01:35:46 but yeah I want to hear it dude we need
01:35:48 to know don’t look directly at the video
01:35:50 contact
01:35:53 what is itward a fake ritual killing in
01:35:56 the courtyard at Ser it’s like a molok
01:35:58 situation this is some yeah Canaanite
01:36:00 stuff man the same people the same
01:36:03 people who designed this I thought
01:36:05 suggested their humor had gone too far
01:36:09 yeah yeah we’re being funny ha hey hey
01:36:11 let’s put on some black robes later and
01:36:12 do a RIT sacri you guys want to prank
01:36:14 what are you doing tonight you you guys
01:36:16 want to prank Ian will have a mock
01:36:17 ritual sacrifice in front of his
01:36:19 bedroom I am not taking part in mock
01:36:21 to be fair like to a certain degree like
01:36:25 them doing this is a massive troll if it
01:36:27 was a troll or display itself yeah and I
01:36:31 think these people in I don’t know these
01:36:33 aren’t Swiss uh cern’s in France is that
01:36:35 right no is that the I thought right no
01:36:38 no it’s between the the border of Swiss
01:36:40 and fr the Swiss have the global bank
01:36:42 the bank for international settlements
01:36:44 they’ve got Davos like I think they are
01:36:45 on another psychedelic level where
01:36:47 they’re like transcended the three
01:36:49 dimensions we’re all talking about God
01:36:50 and spirit Realm that’s real and like
01:36:52 they’re in it they’re constantly in it
01:36:54 they have all the money they have
01:36:55 they’ve already beat the game so they’re
01:36:57 like doing all this weird extra Paras
01:37:00 psychic [ __ ] I don’t think we should be
01:37:02 playing God like that I appreciate the
01:37:04 research aspect and looking into like
01:37:06 you know things like like that but I
01:37:08 think we need to stop at a certain point
01:37:09 you do because we I think we are God and
01:37:11 we should interface with it well it
01:37:13 flows through us we are one with it
01:37:15 we’re with God Is With Us hopefully if
01:37:16 you’re lucky you know but I don’t
01:37:18 believe we are God and we shouldn’t be
01:37:19 playing God like this like they’re
01:37:20 literally saying we’re trying to find
01:37:22 the God particle you know that’s an ego
01:37:24 trip that I don’t want to have any part
01:37:26 with and I also think it’s evil the higs
01:37:28 BOS on the trying to figure out like
01:37:31 find the particle that makes the whole
01:37:32 world makes sense come on now I think we
01:37:34 got to stop at a certain point yeah I
01:37:36 don’t think there’s ever going to be a
01:37:37 silver bullet like we found it kind of
01:37:39 moment but like I do believe God is part
01:37:41 of what we are and like to understand it
01:37:43 and to interact with it is I I think the
01:37:45 most important thing that we can do as
01:37:47 humans is create larger and larger
01:37:49 colliders until we can shatter the veil
01:37:51 with high energy bursts destroying the
01:37:54 barrier between the afterlife and the
01:37:55 Living World maybe that’s what DMT does
01:37:56 it turns your brain into a collider yeah
01:37:59 and then you start at at the start of
01:38:01 your sentences I don’t know if you’re
01:38:03 messing with us or you’re being
01:38:04 completely serious it’s like I have to
01:38:06 wait until you stop talking to figure it
01:38:09 out I’m just like yeah no that sounds
01:38:11 about right uh that that like but you
01:38:13 got to admit if they actually did that I
01:38:16 know it would be bad but you know kind
01:38:17 of exciting right it would definitely be
01:38:20 exciting
01:38:22 you see like a hand like there’s like a
01:38:23 hole in SpaceTime and a hand grips the
01:38:25 side and pulls itself through and you’re
01:38:27 like I have never seen such a creature
01:38:28 in my life if they do it I hope they
01:38:30 live stream we’re talking about the
01:38:31 formation of plasma with just vibration
01:38:33 and water so that I mean that is basic
01:38:36 technology if you can vibrate so now
01:38:38 we’re talking about collisions and the
01:38:40 creation of particles
01:38:42 like I don’t see why like you’re not
01:38:44 that’s not happening in your body too
01:38:45 are we not vibrating the salt water in
01:38:47 our brain and causing I mean there’s
01:38:48 probably natural occurrences like that
01:38:50 with us and I don’t want to also say
01:38:51 that I think science is bad I think
01:38:53 science is a way of trying to understand
01:38:54 our life and that’s beautiful and and
01:38:56 connecting with God and this crazy
01:38:57 Majestic Kingdom we’re in but that in
01:39:00 particular with CERN just seems wrong
01:39:03 who are these people that are doing it
01:39:04 you know I mean if they’re going to do
01:39:06 it shouldn’t we then feel like we have
01:39:08 to do it in order to do it better arm
01:39:11 that’s just like an arms race and that’s
01:39:12 bad too but if you don’t play in the
01:39:14 arms race you lose yeah I I guess but
01:39:17 then you’re you’re we’re pissing off the
01:39:20 the Adam bomb’s fake p now so I don’t
01:39:22 know you know about that no oh there’s a
01:39:24 lot of people who think the Adam bombs
01:39:25 are fake did you see the video that so
01:39:27 what are your thoughts on that you need
01:39:28 to bring this up because it’s like you
01:39:29 know those famous videos from the’ 40s
01:39:31 when they’re testing out the atom bomb
01:39:33 and then they have it in that mock uh
01:39:34 neighborhood that they had created we
01:39:35 we’ve watched it before we’ve seen it
01:39:36 youve seen it where they the the the
01:39:39 bomb testing where they show you the
01:39:40 footage of the building blowing up and
01:39:41 there’s a car all of a sudden behind it
01:39:43 and it looks weird but and the camera
01:39:45 survive you need to bring the video up
01:39:46 if you people need to see this it’s not
01:39:48 like the camera was just sitting out
01:39:50 there the camera
01:39:51 special
01:39:52 housing personally think we do have atom
01:39:55 bombs I cuz I was going to say earlier I
01:39:56 think using atom bombs is one of the
01:39:58 reasons maybe the magnet magnetic Shield
01:40:00 is messed up you know like blasting all
01:40:03 the time that’s why I wonder if we’re
01:40:04 part of if it’s like coinci not
01:40:07 coincidence but like if we’re part of
01:40:09 the shift like right like by the things
01:40:12 we’re doing is camera didn’t even wobble
01:40:15 you think they doctored some of that
01:40:17 footage yeah but but they they the
01:40:19 camera didn’t wobble cuz it could also
01:40:21 be like very very far away no look at
01:40:24 this hold on could you just show that
01:40:25 again just so you some of the cameras
01:40:28 were incased in uh concrete and then
01:40:32 with mounds of dirt built so like it was
01:40:35 basically like dozens of feet of a ramp
01:40:37 up that the shock wave literally just
01:40:39 passed over is that how they did some of
01:40:41 them yes and other ones they had super
01:40:44 cameras like several miles away oh is
01:40:46 this what
01:40:47 they’re I mean this is what
01:40:49 1944 the idea then I was like what is
01:40:52 the argument a directed shock wave blast
01:40:54 that doesn’t affect the camera and did
01:40:57 the radiation not scramble that uh tape
01:41:00 I mean they the tape doesn’t have to be
01:41:02 there they could run cables you know
01:41:05 true I but they also say there were
01:41:06 people there that that God radiation
01:41:08 because they would line men up to watch
01:41:10 it from C distance when they landed on
01:41:12 the moon they faked a lot of the footage
01:41:14 not maybe not a lot it’s kind of a vague
01:41:16 term but that they did in Hollywood
01:41:18 build some fake footage in order to
01:41:20 propaganda
01:41:21 but that they also landed on the
01:41:24 moon he told me that the Moon is a
01:41:26 graveyard and because we’ve had
01:41:28 astronauts and cosmonauts dying on on
01:41:30 there and that NASA knew to get how to
01:41:32 get to the moon but they couldn’t film
01:41:34 it and we did go to the moon but we
01:41:35 couldn’t film it because of all the this
01:41:37 is according to Alex but he’s talked to
01:41:39 crazy people up in NASA bodies
01:41:41 everywhere you know the conspiracy so
01:41:42 who’s who you guys know the first guy in
01:41:44 space uh first guy in
01:41:46 space g right gar yeah r the the
01:41:51 conspiracy theory is that he’s not the
01:41:52 first man in space the first man in
01:41:54 space drifted off into space and we’ve
01:41:55 never heard from him again oh my god
01:41:58 there theories that when the Soviets
01:42:00 were like we’re going to get to space
01:42:03 lots of people were sent and never came
01:42:05 back until they finally succeeded With
01:42:07 Yuri I believe this because it would
01:42:09 makes sense I’m not going to share that
01:42:10 cuz it just look awful you know like the
01:42:13 idea that we went to space the first
01:42:14 time and got it right yeah now we had
01:42:16 like they had the dogs and stuff too
01:42:17 would press the buttons but uh imagine
01:42:19 the moon landing yeah I do think we went
01:42:21 to the moon because uh uh I don’t think
01:42:23 it’s actually that complicated to put
01:42:25 someone in a rocket and blast them off
01:42:26 we do satellites every day but what does
01:42:28 make sense of what Alex Jones is saying
01:42:30 the first time we landed we were like
01:42:31 hey that plan for coming back ain’t
01:42:33 working yeah we like kuer how much is it
01:42:35 Char do you charge for quick movie we we
01:42:38 send someone to the Moon because what
01:42:40 what what ends up happening is everyone
01:42:41 there are people who are like I saw the
01:42:43 the moon landing on TV no that’s a CBS
01:42:45 reenactment right and then the footage
01:42:47 the footage of the great from that’s
01:42:50 after the fact yeah and so the theory
01:42:53 would be and it makes sense we have a
01:42:56 plan we’re going to put you in this big
01:42:57 tube with a bunch of explosives under it
01:42:59 blast you off we did the math you’re
01:43:01 going to land there’s a vehicle because
01:43:03 the moon has weaker gravity we can blast
01:43:05 you off with less fuel you’ll come back
01:43:07 to earth they go you got it right first
01:43:09 thing that happens is uh Houston it’s
01:43:12 not working we’re not getting enough
01:43:14 lift uh well it’s going to take us
01:43:16 another seven eight months to get a ship
01:43:18 or you know another two or three years
01:43:19 before we can build anything you’re dead
01:43:21 yep say your prayers then the next
01:43:23 people land and they go okay we’re
01:43:25 getting ready for liftoff and oh no
01:43:27 we’re going the wrong
01:43:28 way so the idea that uh there are dead
01:43:31 people on the moon I think that makes a
01:43:34 lot of sense and we’re now burying more
01:43:37 people there now because it’s a maum
01:43:38 that orbits Earth but uh when you talk
01:43:40 about C CBS thing it always makes me
01:43:42 think of the Buzz Aldren interview on
01:43:44 Conan O’Brian when Conan tells Buzz I
01:43:46 was I remember watching the moon landing
01:43:48 and Buzz gets mad he’s like no you
01:43:49 didn’t you didn’t watch it that was not
01:43:51 you didn’t see me landing on Mo really
01:43:53 he said that yes but that buzz doesn’t
01:43:56 mean he didn’t land on the moon Buzz
01:43:57 means that you watched a CBS simulation
01:44:00 it literally says CBS simulation on the
01:44:02 bottom of the yeah this is not the
01:44:04 because no one’s on the no one’s on the
01:44:05 Sur wild people PE like I’ve had people
01:44:08 say we never landed on the moon and I
01:44:10 and then we’ll argue and they’ll go how
01:44:11 did they film it and I’m like film what
01:44:13 the moon landing you can see the video
01:44:14 of the thing L I’m like it says CBS
01:44:16 reenactment on it simulation actually
01:44:19 simulation you’re right CBS new one of
01:44:21 my favorite screenshot look at that look
01:44:24 at it
01:44:25 beautiful at the museum in Chicago I saw
01:44:28 it the only thing you need to know to
01:44:30 know that we did go to the Moon is that
01:44:31 there’s that mirror in the Sea of
01:44:33 Tranquility and you can bounce a laser
01:44:35 off that mirror oh they left it there
01:44:37 yeah they they left a mirror there
01:44:38 specifically so that we could bounce
01:44:40 lasers off of it the other thing too is
01:44:43 people like I think it was alexin I
01:44:44 don’t know who said this they were like
01:44:45 there’s aluminum foil on it you think
01:44:47 they actually use foil and I’m like I
01:44:48 think it’s gold foil and yes but that’s
01:44:50 fake no well right right for sure but
01:44:53 there there is gold foil that is used
01:44:54 gold foil is fantastic in space yeah I I
01:44:57 so I used to work for American Eagle
01:44:58 Airlines and you would people would see
01:45:01 one of the engineers taking a strip of
01:45:04 metallic tape and putting it over the
01:45:05 plane and they’d freak out like oh no
01:45:07 this is normal it is a normal thing we
01:45:09 do it is fine calm down people see like
01:45:12 there’s Alum there’s aluminum foil on it
01:45:14 it’s like no one of the things about the
01:45:15 Moon is that if you look like they have
01:45:17 satellite imagery of all those tracks
01:45:19 from they had went around on the Rovers
01:45:20 and I’m like I tell people I think that
01:45:22 we went I don’t think the conspiracy is
01:45:23 that we didn’t go I think the conspiracy
01:45:25 is when were we last there like what’s
01:45:27 China doing over on the so-called Dark
01:45:29 Side of the Moon The Far Side is the
01:45:30 more appropriate word they’re
01:45:31 collaborating with Nazis yeah that well
01:45:33 that’s that’s what I’m saying is
01:45:35 another this ties into the granite
01:45:37 statue I’ve been trying to tell you
01:45:38 about that’s what I’m wondering how did
01:45:40 they cut the the statues how did they
01:45:42 make these 100 ton or thousand ton you
01:45:44 youing you know it be really funny if
01:45:46 like the first time we went to the moon
01:45:49 and we actually saw with our our own
01:45:50 eyes the dark side the back of it is a
01:45:52 gigantic engine and like structures and
01:45:54 there’s people working and it’s a
01:45:56 spaceship yep I wouldn’t be surprised
01:45:58 and they’re like we’re going to release
01:45:59 fake images of the dark side of the moon
01:46:01 so that no one realizes there a giant
01:46:03 spaceship over Earth did you hear they
01:46:04 just pushed back the date to SpaceX 2026
01:46:07 now for moon landing getting a person on
01:46:10 there they keep kicking it back year
01:46:11 after year after year and I just I’m
01:46:13 starting to be like no cuz they’re like
01:46:15 we got to roll out more predictive
01:46:16 programming to prepare the people’s
01:46:18 brains when they when they collapse in
01:46:20 on themselves when they see what that
01:46:21 yeah it’s a spaceship or who knows what
01:46:23 these are some really interesting ideas
01:46:26 and questions something tells me the
01:46:29 sun’s going to blast this planet and the
01:46:31 poles are going to shift long before we
01:46:33 ever get any real do you think uh that
01:46:36 when that happens how does the Earth’s
01:46:38 relationship with the moon change that’s
01:46:40 a good question that that one’s tough
01:46:43 the closest thing I’ve ever heard of
01:46:44 somebody speaking on it is from Ed lead
01:46:46 scin if you don’t know who that is he’s
01:46:48 the guy who built Coral Castle in
01:46:50 Florida
01:46:50 okay um I don’t know what that is this
01:46:53 is wild you got to you got Coral Castle
01:46:55 is is like a whole another like you
01:46:56 could do an entire show on Coral Castle
01:46:59 but apparently he said that you know
01:47:02 based on his understanding of the
01:47:04 magnetism when Earth’s magnetic poles
01:47:07 flip and the the Earth flips that the
01:47:09 moon will come down to about half its
01:47:11 orbit and then go back out and
01:47:14 stabilize oh that would cause Havoc with
01:47:16 our that would cause Havoc like with our
01:47:18 title forces oh my God and oh that our
01:47:22 entire our our the tides are influenced
01:47:25 by the moon and without the Moon it
01:47:27 would be it would be Continental now I’m
01:47:30 starting to understand this Global flood
01:47:31 catastrophe a little bit better if the
01:47:33 moon came close to the Earth and then
01:47:34 pulled away you might see thousand foot
01:47:37 high title waves so I I don’t think that
01:47:40 Chan Thomas’s Adam and Eve story got
01:47:43 everything right you we’re not going to
01:47:45 have a th000 mph wind and there’s not
01:47:47 going to be 2 Mile High waves because
01:47:50 nothing would be here nothing would be
01:47:53 left um and also you know he he says he
01:47:58 thinks the waves come the same direction
01:48:00 every time well he also correctly States
01:48:04 the new pole positions in that book but
01:48:06 to get the new pole positions the way
01:48:08 you have to move the Earth the wave goes
01:48:10 the opposite direction so Chan Thomas
01:48:12 talks about the Pacific coming over the
01:48:14 Rocky Mountains that’s what happened
01:48:16 12,000 years ago waves are going the
01:48:18 opposite direction this time and so um
01:48:22 he got a couple of things wrong like
01:48:23 that but yeah between the Moon and the
01:48:26 actual tilting over of the earth it’s
01:48:27 very easy to see how you could have a
01:48:29 tsunami go from one side of a continent
01:48:31 to another very easy how do you feel
01:48:33 about everyone like the media a lot of
01:48:35 corporate press Outlets keep running
01:48:37 stories on the uh so-called uh like
01:48:40 solar flares causing an internet
01:48:41 apocalypse has a square with what you
01:48:43 guys are talking about I mean it’s it’s
01:48:45 very possible I’ve been talking about it
01:48:47 for over a decade the way they talk talk
01:48:50 about it it’s uh something
01:48:53 between something between Hollywood and
01:48:56 a
01:48:58 juvenile uh presentation of of the
01:49:01 science but I
01:49:03 mean it’s weird I can with pretty good
01:49:07 certainty explain not only what’s going
01:49:09 to happen but give us a timeline of late
01:49:11 2030s to 2040s it’s not hard to do the
01:49:14 math the sun it could blast out a solar
01:49:17 flare tomorrow that sends us back to the
01:49:19 stone age there’s there’s no predicting
01:49:23 a major solar flare there’s no should we
01:49:25 be building large underground
01:49:28 vaults something like that yeah they
01:49:31 probably are I wouldn’t be surprised
01:49:33 they replac the Cheyenne military
01:49:34 complex underneath think about think
01:49:37 think about what the elites are doing
01:49:38 all right so you guys may have heard
01:49:39 like billionaires building bunkers
01:49:41 Zuckerberg was in the news for it not
01:49:43 long ago but yeah what you don’t know is
01:49:45 Jeff
01:49:46 Bezos you know he much less famous than
01:49:49 SpaceX he’s got the blue origin launch
01:49:52 company across the street from his blue
01:49:54 origin launch facility he’s hollowing
01:49:57 out that mountain in the Sierra
01:50:00 Diablos Elon Musk has SpaceX but he also
01:50:03 owns the boring company got a brickway
01:50:05 all these all of these all of these
01:50:08 Super Rich Elites they’re they’re
01:50:11 finding a way to go underground I I was
01:50:13 looking at Coral Castle that you
01:50:15 mentioned earlier this is and it’s good
01:50:17 to go deep this guy it’s this giant
01:50:18 place with all these huge rocks and
01:50:21 stones that were moved and people like
01:50:23 how the hell did you move these things
01:50:24 and apparently he used according to him
01:50:26 I think sound vibration to is that what
01:50:27 he says his story is or is that he never
01:50:29 he never really gives away a lot of his
01:50:31 his Secrets he died with the secrets
01:50:33 this is one reason why like I don’t give
01:50:34 him much time a day is because I’m like
01:50:36 you just kept the secret so like did you
01:50:38 because a lot of people say that he
01:50:39 secretly just used modern equipment and
01:50:41 faked it so I I so that’s one of those
01:50:43 things I’m like well I don’t know if he
01:50:44 had shared something at the end left
01:50:46 something in his will or something to
01:50:47 explain it I’d be far more drawn in
01:50:50 nobody knows where his black box went
01:50:51 that’s the one thing that what what
01:50:54 black box so the only thing like he
01:50:57 allowed us a few pictures to be taken of
01:50:59 this giant apparatus where he would
01:51:02 apparently be able to lift the blocks
01:51:03 and there was this what looked like a
01:51:05 black metal toolbx up at the top of it
01:51:08 and they they looked and they looked
01:51:11 after he died and they never found this
01:51:13 black box but an every single important
01:51:15 photo he allowed to be taken you can see
01:51:17 that black box in the background it’s an
01:51:20 every single photo and a lot of the
01:51:22 people think that the government came
01:51:23 and took the Box what what was in it
01:51:25 what do nobody knows and he didn’t tell
01:51:28 anybody interesting yeah it’s like the
01:51:31 government went and took Tesla’s stuff
01:51:32 after it was actually uh Trump’s Uncle
01:51:34 which is why I say Trump traveler that’s
01:51:37 also fact bar science yeah well people
01:51:40 listening uh so when Nicola Tesla died
01:51:42 he had like something like 47 trunk
01:51:43 loads of of documents and there’s two
01:51:47 things that happened there one the a day
01:51:49 later is when Trump’s Uncle who is a
01:51:51 prestigious Professor uh said that there
01:51:53 was nothing of consequence in there it’s
01:51:55 like okay well it’s physically
01:51:56 impossible to go through 47 trunk loads
01:51:58 of paperwork in a day and on top of it
01:52:01 the FBI had long said they had no um
01:52:05 they did not have Tesla’s files and in
01:52:07 2015 it was Declassified that they had
01:52:10 taken what was called micro film it was
01:52:12 like a primitive form of video you know
01:52:13 of taken a video where essentially it’s
01:52:15 picture picture picture picture of all
01:52:16 the documents um and so they had denied
01:52:18 ever having any of his documents but
01:52:20 they lied through a mission and that
01:52:22 they had photographed all the documents
01:52:25 they took pictures of them like we don’t
01:52:26 have the documents okay true I just have
01:52:28 pictures of the documents they lied and
01:52:29 this was proven and they had lied about
01:52:31 this for 70 years before it was
01:52:32 Declassified in 2015 that they indeed
01:52:34 did Martin bought those and they’re
01:52:37 building stuff in secret using Tesla’s
01:52:39 technology what if
01:52:41 uh the moons of space station what if
01:52:45 the US government found it what if the
01:52:47 group that found it formed a breakaway
01:52:48 group and is now separated the
01:52:49 themselves entirely from everyone else
01:52:51 and is using what they’ve discovered
01:52:52 against us it’s like The Truman Show
01:52:55 well more than that I mean it’s like
01:52:57 humans discover this ancient technology
01:52:59 of that humans had created that had long
01:53:00 been lost become demigods relative to
01:53:03 other humans and now are asserting full
01:53:05 authority over we uh experience like an
01:53:08 existential Renaissance right and people
01:53:10 there’s if we won if we won but even
01:53:12 just experiencing that that being the
01:53:14 truth I think it was Emil Durk we talked
01:53:15 about anomy you know about that theory
01:53:17 we like if you’re presented with proof
01:53:19 that there evidence that this proves
01:53:21 you’re God people can either double down
01:53:23 on that belief or accept it and move on
01:53:25 with the new information so we’ll see
01:53:26 that happen you know people will double
01:53:27 down and be like and lie even though the
01:53:30 truth is right before their very eyes or
01:53:32 they’ll accept it and move on and I
01:53:34 think we’re going to experience some
01:53:35 type of existential break there’s a
01:53:37 episode of Star Trek the Next Generation
01:53:39 where there’s a lot of episodes of Star
01:53:41 Trek the Next Generation Actually I
01:53:42 don’t even need to site any single one
01:53:44 of them but imagine there’s like I
01:53:46 mentioned this a moment ago imagine
01:53:48 humans are an intergalactic
01:53:50 civilization uh with trillions of people
01:53:54 living on various planets with different
01:53:55 time dilation it’s just all crazy and we
01:53:58 are but a failed Colony a colony ship
01:54:01 sailed ashore crashed sank and the
01:54:03 humans got off and said we’re tra
01:54:05 imagine you know we’re like we’re stuck
01:54:06 on this desolate island with no
01:54:08 technology we have to start rebuilding
01:54:10 and you know
01:54:12 eventually the the the the civiliz like
01:54:15 imagine a group of people sailed off of
01:54:17 the shores of England in you know 1700s
01:54:19 crash landed on an island had no way of
01:54:21 communicating no one knew where they
01:54:23 were they had lost in a storm and here
01:54:24 they are sitting there on this island
01:54:25 like we’ll just have to make do actually
01:54:27 there’s a good example I can give there
01:54:28 is a uh in China there are people who
01:54:32 have Roman DNA they mixed race and it’s
01:54:34 believed that a Roman legion that had
01:54:36 traveled and eventually lost the ability
01:54:40 to return for whatever reason settled
01:54:41 down married locals and now this patch
01:54:44 of DNA is there so they’re a lost you
01:54:46 know civilization it would be fun to
01:54:49 think
01:54:50 well you know sorry go ahead I was just
01:54:51 say a thought I have quite often is if
01:54:54 civilization is completely wiped out and
01:54:56 and then someone or something comes and
01:54:57 finds US way later they’re going to find
01:55:00 that we were smashing particles
01:55:02 underground that’ll be left over the
01:55:04 skeleton of ser will be there they’re
01:55:05 going to see that we turn this moon rock
01:55:08 into a or into a graveyard and then
01:55:10 they’re going to be like but they did
01:55:11 shoot into deep space their dead
01:55:13 president’s DNA and this Voyager golden
01:55:16 records which are really good if you
01:55:17 want to listen to them the the uh
01:55:19 Horizon video game series have you guys
01:55:20 played it m zero Dawn and forbidden West
01:55:23 uh basically long story short humans
01:55:26 create AI the ai ai military tools
01:55:28 self-replicate wipe out the planet
01:55:30 destroy all biomass so there’s two
01:55:32 factions one faction creates underground
01:55:34 ret terraforming systems after the AI is
01:55:37 it shuts down uh uh long story short the
01:55:40 terraforming machines begin repopulating
01:55:43 the Earth cloning humans releasing the
01:55:44 Clones the Clones are trained are taught
01:55:46 by AI system failure for a variety of
01:55:48 reasons the education system Apollo is
01:55:51 purged because uh a wealthy Zealot
01:55:54 thinks that humans should be reborn but
01:55:56 not with the knowledge of their
01:55:57 ancestors because humans screwed the
01:55:58 planet up the other faction builds the
01:56:00 Zenith project goes off into outer space
01:56:02 retaining all the knowledge and
01:56:04 Technology of humanity and its
01:56:05 advancements and advancing even further
01:56:07 in the new game the Zenith project or
01:56:10 Colony whatever comes back to Earth and
01:56:13 they know everything about everything
01:56:14 they’re basic they’re biologically
01:56:15 Immortal they have force fields they can
01:56:17 levitate but all the people on Earth who
01:56:19 are born are completely ignorant believe
01:56:21 in Sun gods and are tribal and have
01:56:23 Spears and shields you know it’s so
01:56:25 weird Tim to go along with that in your
01:56:26 prior point about us being like a
01:56:28 Shipwrecked civilization that’s Galactic
01:56:29 and there’s trillions of
01:56:31 humans human beings do not assimilate on
01:56:34 this planet at all if you look at all
01:56:35 the other animals it it’s seamless death
01:56:37 and rebirth and yet if you look at our
01:56:39 cities from like a satellite picture it
01:56:41 looks like a cancer spot we we need
01:56:43 tennis shoes I can’t stand in the Sun
01:56:44 for 30 minutes without getting torched
01:56:46 like it’s weird not just that we’re
01:56:47 talking about how with the pole shift
01:56:49 birds are being affected elephants are
01:56:51 going on migrations and humans are like
01:56:53 what’s happening as if we not a part of
01:56:55 the same cycle as the rest of animal I
01:56:56 can’t find my way anywhere I don’t think
01:56:58 we can we’re we’re not defining this yet
01:57:01 like you know that’s what you’re talking
01:57:02 about is in mainstream sources and
01:57:04 people I think understand on a gut level
01:57:05 a lot of people do at least that we’ve
01:57:06 lost our minds as a civilization and
01:57:09 individually uh and it’s just hard for
01:57:11 people to come to terms with it that’s
01:57:12 why you got to vibrate yourself you’re
01:57:15 going to either going to be vibrated or
01:57:16 you’re going to vibrate yourself man
01:57:18 telling you vibrate at 432 Hertz it is
01:57:21 resettling it is like you are gaining
01:57:24 all right so stability psychologically
01:57:27 Ian’s vote is we bust out our personal
01:57:30 vibrators while the sun ejaculates on us
01:57:33 and hold the line
01:57:35 and yeah I I really like this idea of of
01:57:39 where this Lost Colony or this failed
01:57:41 Colony yeah it feels that way I like
01:57:43 yeah it it sounds I don’t buy it I no I
01:57:47 think it’s more likely that we’ve
01:57:48 evolved over time by eating mushrooms
01:57:50 and inbreeding as a species that could
01:57:52 still Theory could be both I mean maybe
01:57:55 but I’ve seen no evidence that humans
01:57:57 were able to develop rocketry before 100
01:58:00 years ago unless they flew away with it
01:58:02 they dropped for so out of Africa Theory
01:58:04 right that humans evolved Out of Africa
01:58:07 and then moved around but now that’s
01:58:08 being uh disproven it is now being
01:58:11 disbelieved because they’re finding
01:58:12 human remnants in other parts of the
01:58:14 planet human Colony ship comes from the
01:58:17 Galactic Federation comes to Earth and
01:58:19 what do they do they say okay we’re
01:58:20 going to dispatch 12 teams we need a
01:58:22 team here in this region for the oil we
01:58:23 need the region in this year for the you
01:58:25 know uh uh uranium we’re going to send
01:58:27 this team down here for gold go go go
01:58:30 these pockets of humans are dropped on
01:58:31 the planet Colony ship blows up I’m
01:58:33 keeping it super simple and then all
01:58:35 those humans are separated with no
01:58:36 vehicles no Communications and they’re
01:58:38 like what just happened our ship blew up
01:58:40 and then they start building little
01:58:41 cities and then you get humans all
01:58:43 appearing at the same time in different
01:58:44 parts all the world if we weren’t so
01:58:45 genetically similar to bananas I might
01:58:48 agreee but like we’re so our genetics on
01:58:50 Earth are all so tied that I feel like
01:58:52 we’re all just part of this organism but
01:58:53 what if it was all spores that were
01:58:55 dropped here from wherever we that I
01:58:57 believe I believe that it all comes from
01:58:58 panspermia the spores just being ejected
01:59:02 we’ll say across the Galaxy because the
01:59:04 way spores work is they’ll Orient
01:59:05 towards light uh they’ll turn and then
01:59:08 kind of and then they’ll start to spin
01:59:10 create this gyration and then momentum
01:59:12 and they’ll just move through deep space
01:59:14 they can exist in deep space spores can
01:59:16 yeah so we could be hybrids my friend
01:59:18 they could be all the above when again
01:59:19 going back to the religious text saying
01:59:20 that beings came here and Brad with the
01:59:21 women maybe we just it’s all the above I
01:59:23 feel like animal is like spores that ate
01:59:25 other spores whereas spores that ate
01:59:28 plant life became fungus right can I ask
01:59:31 you guys
01:59:32 like I believe something we don’t
01:59:35 understand our timeline like you know
01:59:36 you guys are sharing a different
01:59:37 timeline of human history right and in
01:59:40 the future and but we’re seeing it in
01:59:42 mainstream sources do you think that
01:59:43 there’s like a overall conspiracy
01:59:45 against keeping that knowledge secret or
01:59:47 people trying to uh like manufacture
01:59:50 that to keep control over us like what
01:59:52 what do you think about that if it’s
01:59:53 happening it’s happening at very high
01:59:54 level I don’t think for a second that
01:59:56 various College professors are in on it
01:59:57 I don’t think that mainstream
01:59:58 Archaeology is lying and hiding some
02:00:00 conspiracy it is possible that something
02:00:02 has been found decades ago and has been
02:00:04 classified by the intelligence agencies
02:00:06 that improve some sort of sophisticated
02:00:08 lost ancient civilization technology and
02:00:10 we’re just not aware of it um what I
02:00:12 know is that what we were taught in
02:00:13 school absolutely does not make sense
02:00:15 and it’s very it’s debunk it’s been
02:00:17 debunked and the Mystery is real and
02:00:19 it’s like that about everything like
02:00:20 even down to the Civil War you know and
02:00:22 like the complexities of the Civil War
02:00:23 and stuff like that like stuff that
02:00:25 really not that long ago and we see them
02:00:27 lie to us day to day so why what makes
02:00:29 you think they can get away with
02:00:30 thousands of years ago hundreds of years
02:00:32 ago yesterday you know so yeah I I agree
02:00:34 I just It’s Curious Ben what is your
02:00:36 like um main resources that you when you
02:00:38 study and learn about solar weather what
02:00:41 are your top like
02:00:43 go-tos for research every single
02:00:46 satellite the top 250 scientific
02:00:49 journals in the world um satellite you
02:00:52 like look at Satellite data satellite
02:00:54 data some groundbased Telemetry stuff
02:00:57 but I would say real time data and then
02:01:02 you’d be amazed at how many journals I
02:01:04 read I’m very happy that I took that I
02:01:07 learned how to speedread many years ago
02:01:10 and I have a mild form of hyperthymesia
02:01:12 what’s that so the severe form of
02:01:14 hyperthymesia is when someone’s like oh
02:01:17 27 years ago I was in second grade and
02:01:19 it was a Tuesday it was February 17th I
02:01:21 was reading this book and on page 17 the
02:01:24 fifth word in the sixth paragraph Was
02:01:26 this like they literally can remember
02:01:27 everything that’s severe hyperthymesia
02:01:29 it’s like photographic memory I have the
02:01:31 minor version of that which means if I’m
02:01:33 focused on something or something makes
02:01:34 an impression on me it is like a
02:01:36 photographic memory that’s instantly
02:01:38 recallable do do you trust those
02:01:40 journals like what’s your trust like
02:01:41 with those types of scientific journals
02:01:43 I’m also pretty darn good at math I try
02:01:45 to peer the ones that are I pick out as
02:01:47 being important uh I’ll do my best to
02:01:49 peer review them I also know at this
02:01:52 point which professors which departments
02:01:55 at which universities I trust more um
02:01:59 how do you earn their how do they earn
02:02:00 your trust um you know I I go through
02:02:03 and I do it and I I take a look at what
02:02:05 grants they’re getting yeah um uh most
02:02:09 importantly however I don’t always go
02:02:12 with the conclusions of a paper I go
02:02:15 with the observations and the data and
02:02:17 then I ignore whatever their hypothesis
02:02:20 is about that’s interesting what could
02:02:22 we fund that is needed in this area of
02:02:26 research there’s really not much you
02:02:28 could do except prepare for what’s
02:02:30 coming so we have what do you think a
02:02:32 couple years you’re saying 2030s well so
02:02:34 I mean that that’s the rough part I
02:02:35 don’t know when the humans in charge of
02:02:37 this planet are going to really screw
02:02:38 things up for us um well in China they
02:02:41 just created a a new coron virus with
02:02:44 100% kill rate beautiful they they’ve
02:02:46 had those studies with covid-19 as well
02:02:48 though so you know we’ll see but the
02:02:50 stuff that we’ve been talking about we
02:02:53 probably have at least a decade but I
02:02:55 mean at least all right uh I’m going to
02:02:59 spend the next 10 years at the casino
02:03:00 thanks for hanging out let’s start
02:03:02 digging a hole I want to get under I
02:03:03 want to get underground
02:03:05 bunker you can um fire a a ring of water
02:03:09 around the earth orbital ring and then
02:03:11 fire electrical current through it and
02:03:13 create a a paramagnetic field that could
02:03:16 deflect solar dust
02:03:19 and meanwhile there’s Bill Gates trying
02:03:21 to put solar dust or Dust In The Sky to
02:03:23 dim the
02:03:24 sun this may need to happen it may it
02:03:28 may be a necessary part of this planet
02:03:31 our biology our development for all we
02:03:33 know this planet’s a nursery in what way
02:03:36 what do you mean for all we know that
02:03:39 for all we know we’re we have to prove
02:03:41 ourselves we have to we have to be able
02:03:44 to survive we have to prove our
02:03:45 intelligence and then within the time
02:03:48 span of one of these Cycles we have to
02:03:50 get off the planet and get somewhere
02:03:52 else like that’s our test and we’re
02:03:54 basically stuck here we’re not going to
02:03:55 be completely wiped out haven’t been
02:03:57 wiped out yet but we’re going to be
02:03:59 reset this is a component of the Star
02:04:02 Trek uh storyline that uh there have
02:04:05 been instances in the story Prime you
02:04:06 guys know the prime directive are you
02:04:08 familiar with St Trek yeah to a degree
02:04:10 can’t you can’t make cont you can’t make
02:04:12 there’s there’s a lot of things but you
02:04:13 you don’t interfere with the society’s
02:04:14 natural development first Contact only
02:04:16 occurs if the planet develops warp
02:04:17 technology and the only for that is
02:04:19 because once they develop faster than
02:04:21 light travel you are now going to start
02:04:22 interacting with them in the galactic
02:04:24 scale so there there are instances and
02:04:26 this is the premise of um the beginning
02:04:29 of one of the Star Trek Kelvin timeline
02:04:30 movies the recent ones these are the new
02:04:32 ones where there is an intelligent
02:04:35 species but they’re primitive and their
02:04:37 planet is about to be destroyed and so
02:04:39 the Enterprise decides to intervene
02:04:42 stopping the destruction of the planet
02:04:44 and the uh the Federation is like no let
02:04:47 them die and that’s a crazy concept that
02:04:50 there is a humanoid species of
02:04:51 intelligent life forms but they have not
02:04:53 yet developed the technology but their
02:04:55 planet’s going to be destroyed and so it
02:04:57 should be it’s kind of it’s kind of
02:04:59 crazy that there could be aliens
02:05:02 watching everything happening on Earth
02:05:04 saying if they die they deserve it yeah
02:05:08 we do need to proliferate off the plan
02:05:09 you saw little bird I did see that bird
02:05:11 try to come in here it’s a drone it may
02:05:13 be wonder if birds are not real yeah so
02:05:15 there’s there’s a little bird that tries
02:05:16 to live in this room because the
02:05:18 window’s open and it’s snowing and he’s
02:05:19 like then he sees us like oh I’m out he
02:05:21 just put on a pair of headphones
02:05:23 enjoying the talk but yeah I think I
02:05:25 think if aliens do exist I think it’s
02:05:28 very likely their their mentality is if
02:05:31 you can survive this you deserve to and
02:05:34 if you can’t you don’t because we don’t
02:05:36 want to induct a species of morons that
02:05:39 would burn themselves to Oblivion we
02:05:41 don’t want those those people joining
02:05:42 our ranks in a way it’s kind of Old
02:05:44 Testament God level looking at like you
02:05:47 know Babylon or Canaan you know saying
02:05:49 these people let I’m going to destroy
02:05:50 them CU they can’t survive here yeah
02:05:52 that’s that’s an interesting philosophy
02:05:53 to think that if we’re still going to
02:05:55 fight then we deserve to be wiped out as
02:05:57 a species CU we don’t want to
02:05:58 proliferate fighting it’s not even it’s
02:06:00 not even fighting it’s if we’re going to
02:06:01 set ourselves on fire right so if you
02:06:05 know downstairs in the skat Park we have
02:06:06 a six foot halfpipe I saw it and uh I
02:06:09 call the top of it the VIP section
02:06:11 you’re VIP if you can get up there right
02:06:13 that’s it the only qualification and
02:06:15 it’s it’s mostly a joke it’s very easy
02:06:17 to get up because there’s actually a
02:06:18 halfway point but the IDE general idea
02:06:20 is do you want to invite someone in your
02:06:22 house who’s playing with matches no no
02:06:24 you don’t so you know if you’re building
02:06:27 a big city and you want only the best of
02:06:29 the best of the best you want barriers
02:06:31 to keep out the people who would be
02:06:32 destructive funny thing now is the V
02:06:34 administration’s got an open border
02:06:35 Southern border but that’s a whole other
02:06:36 story y the galactic federation’s
02:06:38 basically like we’d love to uh they have
02:06:40 they they they they you know an emissary
02:06:41 from earth goes and meets with them and
02:06:42 they say look we really want to be a
02:06:43 part of this Federation the technology
02:06:45 can make everyone’s lives better and
02:06:46 they say oh we’d love to uh invite you
02:06:48 in if you can survive this period of
02:06:51 tumult and don’t blow yourselves up but
02:06:53 if you can’t do it you don’t deserve to
02:06:55 be there stories of people at like I at
02:06:58 certain battles and or at missile
02:07:00 launches and they say they claimed they
02:07:02 saw UFOs appear and that could fit in
02:07:04 with your theory a little bit being like
02:07:05 we’re going to come you know they’re
02:07:06 going to come observe these people like
02:07:08 just destroy themselves you know and
02:07:09 that goes back into ancient times
02:07:11 there’s old paintings of UFOs over
02:07:12 battles and stuff turns out the aliens
02:07:14 are all just like very LZ Fair
02:07:15 libertarian capitalists they’re like if
02:07:18 you can’t figure it out you don’t
02:07:19 deserve to be here like one you have to
02:07:23 colonize Mars and then because Martian
02:07:26 um magnetic field is not as attuned it
02:07:29 won’t get as affected by the solar by
02:07:32 the geomagnetic flips so that maybe that
02:07:34 would be a more stable platform during
02:07:37 the the these these polar shifts well we
02:07:40 would have to completely terraform that
02:07:42 plan at first and somehow stop it from
02:07:45 losing its atmosphere again yeah I hear
02:07:47 that the outer layer of the core is made
02:07:49 of like nickel and if we could somehow
02:07:52 um damp like like thin that out that it
02:07:55 would have more access to its magnetic
02:07:57 core it’s possible these are all guesses
02:08:00 and I
02:08:01 mean there’s no way to really know
02:08:04 unless you go in there if we heat it up
02:08:05 really fast and melt all that ice would
02:08:07 it cause enough steam to produce a no
02:08:09 because most of the ice there is
02:08:12 CO2 it’s co it’s frozen CO2 so uh we’re
02:08:16 we’re we’re about P time we’re wrapping
02:08:18 things up but if there’s any final
02:08:19 thoughts you wanted to add on this no I
02:08:21 I had I had a lot of fun I think that we
02:08:23 got we covered some of the most
02:08:25 important things that and you know I’m
02:08:29 all the stuff that people are worried
02:08:31 about talking about mostly on the
02:08:34 Internet it’s it’s all real and we need
02:08:36 to pay attention to it but they just
02:08:37 need to realize that if it seems like
02:08:40 the powers that be are acting recklessly
02:08:42 it’s cuz they know there will be no
02:08:43 Reckoning if it seems like they are
02:08:45 quickly now undercutting and not hiding
02:08:48 in the Shadows spending like there’s no
02:08:50 tomorrow it’s because they know on a
02:08:51 certain timeline there isn’t one and
02:08:53 they’re building underground this has
02:08:55 been going on for a long time there’s
02:08:56 Mountain bunkers built into mountains
02:08:58 where they can they can land planes yeah
02:09:00 and we have that vault in Switzerland
02:09:02 maybe where they have all the seed seed
02:09:03 Vault yeah yeah swar seed Vault yeah
02:09:06 yeah you want to shout anything out
02:09:07 final thoughts uh follow me on uh I’m on
02:09:10 Rumble I’m on YouTube Channel’s called
02:09:11 bright Insight my name is jimmmy
02:09:12 corsetti follow me on X I’m going to
02:09:14 presence there you can follow me on
02:09:15 Instagram that place is lame Zucker brur
02:09:16 is a complete Tyrant um but that’s it’s
02:09:19 been a great pleasure I think we hit a
02:09:20 lot of interesting things and thanks for
02:09:22 having me yeah did you want to shout
02:09:23 anything out I mean my YouTube channel
02:09:25 suspicious observers uh I’m on Twitter
02:09:28 as well but I prefer everybody watch the
02:09:30 YouTube channel and uh really thank you
02:09:32 guys this has been a lot of fun thanks
02:09:34 thanks for coming Shane of course you
02:09:35 been hanging out yeah so glad to be here
02:09:36 and talk to you guys uh you can find my
02:09:38 stories at scanner.com SC cnr.com and
02:09:40 we’re launching pretty soon the inverta
02:09:42 world live show and you guys should be
02:09:44 on that and we can get into some more of
02:09:46 the stuff I would love that this is so
02:09:47 much fun dude I it it we went for 2
02:09:50 hours at an hour and 45 I was like man
02:09:52 we just got started I’ve got like 20
02:09:54 tabs open we could have went for 5 hours
02:09:57 like really yeah we should this
02:09:59 definitely well definitely with the
02:10:00 inverted world show yeah this a great
02:10:03 combo good to see you guys Eddie and
02:10:05 crossin hit me up anywhere and we’ll
02:10:07 we’ll we’ll reconnect this has been a
02:10:09 blast also got Kellen who hasn’t said
02:10:11 much but uh shout pressing the buttons
02:10:13 it feels like I’m watching the history
02:10:15 or Science Channel over here but uh yeah
02:10:17 this was awesome for coming guys it’s
02:10:19 been a blast guys make sure to subscribe
02:10:21 to the tenant media channel we’re back
02:10:22 next week of course we’re back tonight
02:10:24 with timcast IRL IRL over youtube.com/
02:10:27 timcast IRL thanks for hanging out and
02:10:30 we’ll see you all next
02:10:47 time

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d65UtfyzigM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pscLXkFk9w4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6t7mzxaD14E

NSA Mission & Operations
Communications Intelligence
Signals Intelligence
Domestic Intelligence
Independently Operating Personnel Target Citizens
NSA’s Domestic Electronic Surveillance Network
Signals Intelligence Remote Computer Tampering
Detecting EMF Fields in Humans for Surveillance
NSA Signals Intelligence Use of EMF Brain Stimulatlon
Capabilities of NSA operatives using RNM
NSA Signals Intelligence Electronic Brain Link Technology
Table: An example of EMF Brain Stimulation
NSA Techniques and Resources
Remote RNM Devices
Spotters and Walk-Bys in Metropolitan Areas
Chemicals and Drugs
Intelligence/Anti-Terrorist Equipment
Resources

http://www.whale.to/b/akwei.pdf

This is extremely well put together and summarizes most of the concerns we have about what is going on.

[START]
[Music]
hello everybody
today i have the distinct pleasure
of speaking with dr Gad Saad
a friend of mine a colleague an early
supporter of mine when those were
few and those were few and far between
when when all the publicity emerged
initially surrounding me and the videos
i made regarding uh
bill c-16 in canada Gad was one of the
first people to interview me
and he took i would say a substantial
risk in doing so
um we stayed in contact since then
doing some podcasts together we’ve done
each other’s podcasts
um and we spoke together at a free speech rally in
toronto and that’s a couple of years ago
now three years ago i think
yeah three tumultuous years to say the least
gad has recently written the parasitic mind
how infectious ideas are killing common sense
and a number of other books as well
which you can see arrayed
behind him the consuming instinct a
contributor to the evolutionary basis of
consumption if i remember correctly no
the sole author of that one but the other one
is the edited book right and that’s evolutionary psychology
in the behavior in the business sciences exactly yeah
so we’re going to talk about god’s book today but
a variety of other things too so and i
think the conversation will naturally tend
towards the topics that are outlined in
the book and in any case
um so let’s start with that you talk
about infectious ideas anyways i should
say it’s very nice to see you guys thank
you very much for coming on to this
podcast youtube jordan it’s uh it’s so
nice to have you back
in the public sphere i can speak for
millions of fans we’ve missed you and
i’m delighted to be with you
well i tell you for me it’s a lifesaver man
to be able to come back after being sick for so long and and
to be able to jump back into doing this
i i’m certainly not at my peak by any
stretch of the imagination but it’s such a relief that
i still have a life waiting to be picked up
and that i can ask people to
come and talk to me and they will and i
can start communicating with people again
it’s literally a lifesaver and i mean
that most sincerely so
i really do appreciate you coming to
talk to me and i hope we get a long ways today
there’s lots of things i want to talk to you about um
you talk about infectious ideas and
let’s talk about that a little bit
um your book
so i’m gonna i’m gonna take a
bit of a critical stance to begin with i think
your book concentrates a lot on infectious ideas
on the left and of course that’s been a
particular preoccupation of mine in
recent years although i was
i spent a lot of my career dissecting
infectious ideas on the right
because i was very appalled as any
reasonable person would be about what happened
i mean it’s ridiculous to even have to
say it but i was preoccupied in some sense what
by what happened in germany in the 1930s and the 1940s
and the infectious ideas that possessed
that entire community
that entire country
and the devastating consequences of that
and so it’s obviously the case that
infectious ideas can emerge
across the political spectrum maybe even
in the moderate center but certainly on
the right but your book concentrates
almost solely on the excesses
the ideological excesses of the left and
i’m wondering what you think of that as a scientist
sure uh it’s a great point that you
raise and i actually address it
uh very early in the book where i argue that
it is absolutely not the case that
it’s only one side of the political
aisle that could be parasitized by bad
ideas and idea pathogens
the reason why i specifically focus on uh
ideas stemming from the left is not
because this is a political book but rather because
i operate and you you’ve operated your
entire life within an ecosystem called
the you know academia and within the
context of academia the idea pathogens that are
most likely to proliferate are those
that are stemming that are being spawned by leftist professors
this certainly does not apply that the
right could not itself be parasitized by
countless other idea pathogens so it’s
not because i was trying to take a
political position but rather
as any epidemiologic epidemiologist would do
or and or i call myself a parasitologist
at the human mind
i happen to be focusing on idea pathogens
that are the ones that define my daily reality
exactly okay i i can i can sympathize
with that because i would say as well that as a
an academic i haven’t felt the pressure
of right wing conspiratorial theories in
relationship to my work
but i would say this is this is
something that has happened is that
i started to talk about political ideas because of
the consequences of left-wing
ideological thinking in the academy
and what happened as a consequence of
that was that i was branded as you have
been as a right-wing thinker an alt-right thinker
maybe even a nazi because i was called
out on more than one occasion and i
think that might be true of you too
although you make a more a less
believable nazi than me i would say
given your background um a less
plausible nazi let’s say
so i found that when i objected to the
to the excesses of the left the people
who sprang to my defense tended
logically enough to come from the right
and and there were tendrils
feelers out from even the more radical
right to see if
because i was opposed to the radical
left that i might be a supporter say of
the radical right and
what was interesting about that to me
watching that is that
you tend to think better of people when
they come to your defense
and so i noticed uh
what would i say
it’s it’s hard to keep your centrist bearings
when you go after one side of the
political equation and you’re befriended
at least in part by the other
or the or the the feelers are there and
so i’m wondering
what you think about that do you think
that have you shifted more towards the right
as a consequence of of yeah
opposing the radical left i don’t think
so because oftentimes people ask me
you know you never espouse a particular
position about your political tribe and and
i answer them not to be coy or to be
evasive i tell them
that’s because i truly don’t believe
in sort of an all-encompassing label
that defines my political positions there are
many positions on which you would think
oh this is a conservative position so
for example when it comes to open door policy
or aka immigration policy then you would
think i’m quote conservative when it comes to
you know capital punishment for predatory serial pedophiles
i have absolutely no moral restraint in the idea of
executing someone who’s raped five
children that would be considered a conservative idea
when it comes to social issues then you
would think of me as
extremely socially liberal and quote progressive so
so really my own personal tribe is one
that is defined by examining each individual
issue and then proposing a position
based on sort of universal foundational
principles so the fact again that i
criticized largely the left says nothing
about my ability to
have most of my friends be leftist
by me believing in many of their uh positions
it’s simply that you know it’s the way i
like to compare it is
if i were an endocrinologist who specializes
in treating diabetes it would be silly
for someone to come to me and say but wait a second
dr sad how come you’re never exploring
melanoma don’t you know that melanoma is a deadly disease
well of course it is i just happen to be
someone who is studying
diabetes that doesn’t state anything about the dangers
of the endless other panel plea of
diseases that might afflict human beings
and so i think it’s really very much in that spirit that
i wrote this book it’s not at all that
the right cannot be parasitized
take for example anti-scientific reasoning
often times my leftist colleagues will
pretend as though it is the right
who engages in anti-science rhetoric now
let’s take a discipline that
i’m in evolutionary psychology well when
it comes to the rejection of evolution
it is much more likely to be people on
the right who reject evolution
when it comes to evolutionary psychology in particular though
it’s a lot more likely to be people on
the left who reject
you know evolutionary arguments for to
explain for example sex differences
so it’s not that one party is
anti-science more than the other is that
each party has its own
anti-scientific lenses and myopia
okay so i guess these questions are
particularly germane given what happened
in washington in the last two weeks and
what still might happen in the next few
days we’ll see
there’s i’ve noticed recently
among friends and family members as well as
more broadly in the culture that there is a
pronounced increase in the degree to which
conspiratorial theories in particular
and paranoid theories are propagating
on the right i think now i don’t know much about keelanon
i’ve been out of the loop and and i i
should be more on top of that but i’m not but
i do know that that it’s
popular and pervasive and i do know that
trump’s claims to have won the election are supported
by a network of conspiratorial thinking
i was speaking with douglas murray about
that and you tell me what you think
about this this is
sort of the conclusion of our discussion
was that so trump claims that he lost it
or that he won the election
and and actually that he wanted by a substantial margin
that’s the claims as far as i’ve been
able to uh understand them
and then to believe that this is what
you have to believe
you have to believe that the electoral
system in the united states is broken to
the degree that fraud is widespread and
pervasive and of sufficient magnitude to
move an election you have to believe
that people as close to trump as mike
pence have become part of a
conspiratorial network or have been shut
down by people who are able to put
sufficient pressure on him
you have to believe that the judiciary
in the united states which i believe has
ruled something like 60 times
against his claims and one time in favor
you have to believe that it’s become
uncontrollably corrupt even on the republican side
even when those republicans were
nominated by trump or
trump’s people and you have to believe
that the only person standing on moral high ground
through all of this has been trump and
each of those propositions seems to me
to be have a low probability of truth and their
combined probability is infinitesimally small
so but there’s widespread support for
trump’s claims that he
that he won the election and was robbed of it and so
so someone who is looking at your book
especially from a leftist perspective
would say well not only are you concentrating
on the wrong side of the equation with
regards to clear and present danger but um
the the omission of analysis of
conspiratorial thinking on the right
shows a blind spot that is of sufficient magnitude to threaten
the stability of society now not to say
that you’re personally responsible for
that by any stretch of the imagination but
um see i’ve really been thinking about this because
i have felt as an academic that the
greatest threat to my
scientific inquiry into my free inquiry
has clear and to my students for that
matter has clearly come from the left
but well but
there’s no doubt that conspiratorial thinking
is on the increase on the right
i mean i knew that was going to happen five years ago
and that’s partly the sorts of warnings that
i was trying to put out that
with enough cage rattling the rate was
going to wake up and
but well i’ll let you comment on that so to go back
i guess to to to reiterate what i said
earlier but in a slightly different way
uh i think what you’re this the the
argument that you’re making
is that the susceptibility to believe
the s there’s actually now a a
psychometric scale which perhaps you’re
aware of that actually
measures susceptibility to bs
uh it’s actually published i think in
the journal called judgment and
decision making and there’s been several
follow-ups of that work
uh so really looking at the
our ability to believe nonsense using a psychometric scale
uh all all i think that you are demonstrating and
the question that you’re posing is that
uh the capacity for people to think
in non-critical ways is not restricted
to a political aisle the left could be
anti-scientific the right can be
anti-scientific the left can succumb to
idea pathogens the right can succumb to
idea pathogens in chapter six of my book i talk about
a particular cognitive malady which i coined as
ostrich parasitic syndrome i think
ostrich parasitic syndrome is something that
all people can succumb to by the way not
only the left and the right can succumb
to ostrich perisic syndrome
being highly educated and otherwise intelligent
does not inoculate you from many of these
uh cognitive distortions and and and
you know irrational ways of thinking so
you would typically think oh well
you know while professors who are in the
business of you know
critically thinking would be the ones
who might be immune from this
and meanwhile as i described in the book
the ones who spawn all of this nonsense
are typically professors so again to
reiterate i truly don’t think that
it is a political statement to argue that people can
think irrationally i simply chose to focus
on the left because as you said uh
that’s the world that i inhabit that’s the though
the dangers come from those folks now
that doesn’t mean that listen i in 2017
when you and i
finally appeared uh at that event
in uh in toronto
i had received because of what had
happened with that journalist where she
wasn’t
invited and so on and do you remember
all that stuff jordan
sure faith goldie faith goldie exactly i
can remember where he made the
extraordinarily difficult decision to
not include her on the free speech panel right
and more than that i mean we sort of
advised the organizer what our thinking
was and then ultimately it was up to her
since she was the one who was organizing
well by simply stating that
the and the number of death threats that
i had received and i
and without being able to absolutely
know for sure i would predict that based on the
demographic profile of many of the
people who were sending me death threats
they would have been much more on the right right
so again it’s not as though i am negating the possibility
that people on the right could could be
absolutely insane in their own
unique and flowery ways all i’m doing
though in the book is
i am focusing on diabetes without
rejecting the fact that melanoma could
also be important so again
it’s really i hope that people don’t
read the book as though it is a political treatise
it just so happens that that’s the
ecosystem that i reside in
so what do you think the metaphor buys you
i mean you’re a biologically oriented
thinker you talk about
ideas in some sense as if they’re
analogous to life forms
and and so let’s explore that metaphor a
little bit what do you think that buys you
in terms of explanatory power well what
it does is it contextualizes uh
the the fact that many people slowly
walk into the abyss of infinite lunacy
in complete complicity so let me let me
give you a couple of analogies because again
in part it’s just uh prose that allows
me to draw a
powerful analogy but i actually do think that there are
literal comparisons in using those biological
metaphors so take for example the spider wasp
the spider wasp looks for a
spider to sting rendering it zombified
it’s still alive it then carries this much larger spider
into its uh burrow
and then it uh while the spider is fully alive but zombified
it lays an egg and then the offspring will
eat the spider the spider in vivo
well i argue that political correctness
is akin to the spider wasps
sting right it zombifies us into being complicit
in our silence leading us slowly into the bureau
of infinite lunacy so you could view it as just
powerful writing rhetoric or literally
the equivalent a mimetic
form equivalent of what happens
in biological systems take now when i
talk for example about parasitic ideas
well in neuroparasitology what you
typically study is how a particular parasite
will end up making its way to the brain of its host
altering its neural circuitry so that then the host
will engage in behaviors that are
maladaptive to it but adaptive for the parasite
and so when i was trying to come up with
a powerful way of explaining why do people hold on
and get infected by these alluring parasitic ideas
i thought aha the neuroparasitologic
parasitological framework is the ideal framework
to try to explain why otherwise supposedly rational people
could completely become parasitized by insanity right
why it would be that the lgbtq community
could suddenly become in favor of
queers for palestine as that this is an actual group
so it’s queers for paris time for
palestine but down down zionist pigs
so tel aviv is one of the
most welcoming spots for the lgbtq community
and so if i’m a member of that community it would make
rational sense for me to be supporting
a system a political system a country
where i could live in safety and freedom but instead
i walk around saying queers for
palestine that sounds parasitic
it sounds like the idea the framework
that would cause me to say queers for palestine rather than
tel aviv is not a good position to hold because
as someone who comes from the middle
east i can tell you that
uh lgbt community in gaza
or the west bank are not usually embraced
with infinite warmth so this is why i
thought that using a neuro person’s logical model
would be really apt in describing why we become
so intoxicated with these bad ideas okay so
a parasite takes over a host
so that the parasite can replicate
so it has an interest in the outcome so to speak
or it acts like it has an interest in
the outcome that might be a more accurate way of
of thinking about it so in order for
that parasite metaphor to hold true
the ideas the ideas which are acting as
parasites would have to have an interest
in the outcome so
are you presupposing that
ideas i guess you’re presupposing like
dawkins that ideas compete in a darwinian fashion
and those that are the best at taking over their hosts
are the ones that propagate the the difference between
and i of course i i cite dawkins work uh
yes memetic stuff the difference between
say a mimetic approach and the approach
that i take in the book is i guess
twofold one memes uh
can be negatively valenced they could be
neutral and they can be positively
valence right so memes
a jingle if i start humming a jingle and
you happen to hear me
you know humming that jingle jordan then you might
hum it as well and so my mimetic jingle has now
infected your brain so that could be a completely neutral
beam or it could be a positive beam so first the
the valence of memes can be you know all possible options
whereas the the parasitic idea passages
that i’m speaking of
i’m implicitly if not explicitly stating
that they are negative
that’s one number two uh
the mimetic framework operates as though they’re viral
whereas um there’s a unique element
to it being parasitic right so pathogens can be
viruses they could be bacteria they
could be parasites they could be fungi
and so i am the reason why i call them idea pathogens
is because pathogen is a broader term that can
incorporate viral infection or parasitic
infestation so there are a few of these types of
nuances between the approach that i’m
taking and the one that
uh dawkins took so many years ago
so a parasite tends to make a host act in ways that
that aren’t that good for the host exactly and
it seems to me that that’s potentially where the metaphor
breaks down here because it see
it also seems to me that people who are
pushing these ideas forward or who are
allowing themselves to become possessed by them
which is a metaphor i’ve used actually
gain as a consequence so they’re working
they’re working for the same purposes as the parasite
and so then you have to wonder if that
actually constitutes a parasite
i mean the people who are pushing a
given ideological position or even a given theoretical position
hypothetically benefit from pushing that position
as a consequence of the effects it has
on their success within their
broad community sorry if i interrupt no
i think i would look at it as
does the parasitizing of your mind
result in the proliferation of the idea pathogen
the idea pathogen doesn’t care about you
know your reproductive fitness so for example take
islamophobia if i can if now i’m speaking as a
uh you know islam islamic supremacist
if i want my society to become more
islamic or not my society the west to be more islamic
spreading islamophobia as a narrative is
certainly very good so if i could convince
a lot of people in intelligentsia in the
humanities and the social sciences
that it is islamophobic to ever
criticize anything about islam
so if the islamophobia memeplex to use
dawkins term or i would call it more of an idea pathogen
if i can parasitize enough minds to repeat this
then that is islamophobia memplex by
its spreading from brain to brain has an
ultimate goal of creating greater
islamic islamization of the west
i don’t care about the reproductive
fitness of the humanities professor
who is spreading that islamic
islamophobia idea pathogen do you follow
what i mean so
yeah well but it might be to your
benefit if you actually did enhance the
function of your host
if by being parasitized by the idea pathogen
it improves the reproductive fitness of the host
yes or in or in this situation maybe the
the ideological or the academic status
of the host because then
the ideas could be spread more rapidly
that it certainly does right so
if if we can create an echo chamber
where we could then spread that
idea pathogen more readily as happens
like in the in the
academic ecosystem that’s perfect but
the reality is the reason why i like the term
parasitic rather than mimetic is because by
having so go back to the example of queers for palestine
by having someone from the lgbt community
fighting hard against islamophobia and
fighting hard against the
zionist pigs and so on and it is actually
detrimental to my reproductive fitness i mean or
never mind my reproductive fitness my
survival right being someone who is a
member of the lgbt community
and standing up for a system
that would be brutal and repressing me is not
exactly a good rational strategy to pursue
and yet i pursue it precisely because i have been infected
by a parasitic idea pathogen you follow
what i’m saying all right well i follow
it but it doesn’t
it doesn’t explain to me exactly the
motivation for putting the idea forward
you know because the idea the idea isn’t literally
hijacking the nervous system of its host
in the same way that the parasitic wasp that you described
hijacks the nervous system of the spider
like there’s no direct
there’s no direct uh well there is
connection between the ideas and
and the motivations of the host and so i
guess that’s partly
i’m striving to understand that yeah so i mean
in the sense that the parasitic wasp is actually
causing a neuronal alteration a direct neuronal
alteration that causes the spider to become
uh zombified you’re right but ultimately
you know not to to be too reductionist ultimately
everything that we do including our
ideas could be translated
to neuronal firings right right but you have to
hopefully you’ll be able to specify that mechanism so
so that leads to well i mean
i i’m not suggesting that you should
have pushed your research to the point
where you could specify the neural mechanisms
but it does open up a problem i would say
maybe the problem would be
what you see in some sense in the continual debate
between right and left might be construed
in the terms that you’re using as a constant battle between
proponents of the claim that one
set of ideas is parasitical well the
other set isn’t
and so for example people who object to
a biological definition of sex
or gender would claim that the reason that
that the person who puts that claim
forward has been parasitized by an idea
in your parlance and i think this is
actually quite close to the claim that is made
um but that the true reason
for the claim so the true the true
motivation for the claim is is something
operating behind the scenes
is that the person who’s making the claims is uh
bolstering their position of power or
maintaining their position in the status
quo or attempting to put down another group
but mostly for the purposes of
maintaining the status quo within which
they have an interest
so they’re actually not putting forth an idea that has
any objective validity but
but being possessed in some sense by an idea that
has a function similar to the function
that you’re describing so
how do you using this metaphor how do you protect yourself
or protect even the entire critical game
where ideas are assessed
from degenerating into something like
claim and counter claim that
all the ideas that are arguing are
nothing but or that are competing or nothing but parasites
so at first i’m going to here maybe surprisingly
be more charitable in uh
attributing a cause to the people who originally espoused
and spawned all those idea pathogens and so
when i was looking at all those
pathogens and by the way let me just
mention them very quickly for your viewers
who may not have yet read the book so
post-modernism would be the grand daddy of all
idea pathogens cultural relativism
identity politics biophobia the fear of using biology
to explain human affairs militant feminism uh
you know critical race theory each of
these is an idea pathogen
so as i was trying to think of
some common thread that runs through all
these ideal pathogens very much like if
i were an oncologist
i may be someone specializing in pancreatic cancer
which is very different than melanoma
and yet of course all cancers
at least share the one mechanism of unchecked
cell division right so even though they
might manifest themselves and project through different trajectories
there is some consilient commonality across
all cancers and so i was trying to look for a similar
synthetic explanation for what do all these idea pathogens
have in common and here’s where i’m
going to be charitable
i think that these idea pathogens start off
from a noble place and they start off
from a uh a desire to pursue a noble cause
but regrettably in the pursuit of that noble cause
then they end up then they meaning the
the proponents of those idea pathogens
end up willing to murder truth
in the service of pursuing that otherwise noble goal
right so for example if we take equity feminism
most people who are going to be watching this show
are probably equity feminists i’m an
equity feminist and if i can speak for
you i bet you’re an equity feminist
which means basically what
we are you know men and women should be
equal under law under the law
there should not be any institutional uh sexism or misogyny
against one sex or the other so the christina huff summer
position so we can start off with that
being a great idea
right well we could even push that a
little bit further and say that if we had any sense
we’d want the the sexes to be open up to
equal exploitation so to speak
because everybody has something to offer
and that only a fool would
want to restrict half the population
from offering what they have to offer
even if he was driven by nothing but self-interest
fair enough great and so the problem
then arises when militant
feminism comes in they argue that in the service
of that original goal and the desire to
squash the patriarchy and the status quo and so on
we must now espouse a position
that rejects the possibility that men and women
are distinguishable from one another not better not worse
but there are evolutionary trajectory
that would have resulted in
recurring sex differences that are fully
explained by biology and by evolution
while militant feminists will reject
that and hence they’ll have they’ll suffer from biophobia
another idea pathogen in the service of that
original noble goal so think first i’ll
just do one more if i may
cultural relativism the idea that who
you know there are no
human universals each culture has to be
identified based on its own merits and so on
again it starts off with a kernel of
truth it seems to make sense
the gentleman who first espoused this franz boaz
the anthropologist out of colombia was trying to
uh stop the possibility that people might use
biology in explaining differences
between cultures and so on and therefore
and justify them that way
exactly and right the biologists would
say this is how it is and therefore
that’s how it should be
exactly so in the service of that original
noble goal they then end up building edifices of
evidence for the next 100 years where
the word biology is never uttered right
i mean and that’s been my whole career right which is
i go into a business school and i look
at organizational behavior and consumer
behavior and personnel psychology
and all of the other panoply of ways that we manifest
our human nature in a business context
and never do we ever mention the word
biology well how could you study
all of these purposes of important behaviors
without recognizing that humans might be
privy to their hormonal fluctuations
to me it seems like a trivial trivially obvious statement
to most economists this is hearsay what
does what the hormones have to do with the economy
so again you start off with franz boaz
having a noble cause
but then it metamorphosizes into complete lunacy
in the service of that original noble
goal so i think
if i were to look for a consilient
explanation as to why all these idea pathogens arise
it’s because they start off with a kernel of truth
with a noble cause but then they metamorphosize into
all right so here’s another way that
they might be conceptualized as parasites too
um imagine that the academy has built up
a reputation which is like a reputation
is like a storehouse of value
in some sense so you get a good
reputation if you trade equitably with people
and then your ability to trade equitably is
relatively assured in the future right
you’ll be invited to trade and so
reputation is like a storehouse
in some sense now academia at least in
principle or the intellectual exercise
has built up a certain reservoir of goodwill
which is indicated by the fact that
people will pay to go to universities to be educated
and the hypothesis there is that the
universities have something to offer
that’s a
practical utility of of sufficient magnitude so that
the cost is justifiable you go to
university and you come out more productive
and the reason you come out more
productive is because the intellectual
enterprise that the university has been engaged in
has had actual practical relevance and
you you might justify that claim by
pointing to the fact that
um the technological improvements that have been
generated in no small part by raw research have
radically improved the standard of
living of people everywhere in the world
and some of that’s a consequence of pure
academic research a fair bit of it
pure scientific research now what
happens is that other ideas come along
that don’t have the same functional utility
but have the same appearance and so
they’re not so much
parasite they don’t so much parasitize individuals
let’s say as they they they parasitize the entire system
the system has has built up a reputation because it was
offering solutions of pragmatic utility
even training students to think clearly
and to assess arguments clearly and to communicate properly
has tremendous economic value if you do
it appropriately because that means they
can operate more efficiently when
they’re solving problems
now but once that system is in place
with its academic divisions and its
modes of proof and all of that it can be
mimicked by um by systems that
that perform the same functions putatively but
don’t have the same pragmatic uh
they don’t have the same history of
demonstrating practical utility well let
me give you an example
um the idea of peer review
a peer review works in the sciences because
there’s a scientific method and because you can
bring scientists together and you can ask them to
adjudicate how stringently the
scientific method was adhered to
in a given research program but then you
can take the idea of peer review and you
can translate it into us
a field like let’s say sociology
and you can mimic the
uh academic writing style that’s
characteristic of the sciences
and you can make claims that look on the
surface of them to have been
generated using the same technologies
that the sciences use
but all it is is a facade yeah
and it’s the so that’s where the it’s that
it’s at that level where the parasitic
metaphor seems to me to be
most appropriate and so so let me let me
that you raised a great point uh
so a couple of things to mention here number one
i i reside in a business school
it’s and if i were residing in an
engineering school i would probably say
the exact same thing that i’m about to say which is
the idea pathogens that i discuss in the parasitic mind
have simply not proliferated in the business school
and in the engineering school for
exactly the reasons that you
began enunciating at the start of your
of your of the current comment right
because those disciplines are
coupled with reality i cannot build
a good economic model using
postmodernist economics i cannot build a
econometric model of consumer choice
that literally that predicts well
you know how you know that develops an
ai model that learns
what i should prefer on amazon using feminist
glaciology so i cannot build a bridge
using postmodernist physics so because those disciplines
are intimately coupled with reality
it becomes a lot more difficult for their
epistemology to be parasitized by idea patterns yes okay
okay so so now
this brings up some questions about
exactly what constitutes a claim to truth and
and i think engineering is actually a
really good place to start because
scientists often claim and i’ve had
discussions with sam harris about this a lot and
we never did get to the bottom of it
partly because it’s too damn complicated but
you know i tend to adopt a pragmatic
theory of truth even in the scientific domain and
what that essentially means is that your
theory predicts the consequences of a
set of actions in the world
and if you undertake those set of actions and that
consequence emerges then your theory is true enough
so what what it’s done is it’s just
demonstrated its validity within that set of predictions
now whether it can predict outside
that’s a different question hopefully it
could it would be generalizable but it’s at least
it’s true enough to have predicted that outcome and so
in engineering and i would say also in business
maybe not in business schools but
certainly in business in engineering
and you build when you build a bridge
there’s a simple question which is
does the bridge stand up to the load
that it needs to
uh it needs to be resistant to
um and if the answer to that is yes then
your theory was good enough to build that bridge
now maybe you could have built it more
efficiently and maybe there’s a more
uh you could have got more strength for
less use of materials and time that’s certainly possible but
there is that there’s the bottom line
there that’s that’s very very close and
in business it’s the same thing which is
part of the advantage of a market economy is that
your idea can be killed very rapidly and
that’s actually an advantage because it
helps you determine what
a valid idea is in that domain and what
a valid idea isn’t
and it does seem like the closer that
disciplines in the universities have
adhered to the scientific methodology
the more resistant they have been to
these parasitic ideas in your terminology
we should go over again exactly what those ideas are
right um just just so that everybody’s
clear about it when i start with post
modernism since this is one that you’ve
uh tackled all so many times yeah you
want to define it and do you want to
uh let’s let everybody know exactly what
we’re talking about at its most
basic level post-modernism begins with
the tenet that you know there is no
objective truth that we are completely
shackled by subjectivity we’re shackled by a
wide range of biases and so to argue about absolute truths
is silly and so maybe okay so so
sorry let me add a bit to that so we can flesh it out
so the post-modernists also seem to
claim and i’m going to be as charitable
as i possibly can in this description
because i don’t want to build up a straw man
um they’re very very concerned with the
effect that language has on defining reality
yes and the french postmodernist thinkers in particular
seem to have come to the conclusion that
reality is defined in totality by
language there’s no getting outside of
the language game there isn’t anything outside of language
so that’s where they differ would be
exactly that right deconstructionism
language creates reality is exactly what
you just described correct right and
it’s it’s a weak theory in some sense
because it doesn’t abide by its own principles so
for example and this is one of its
fundamental weaknesses as far as i’m concerned is that
daradah says that but then he acts as if and also
explicitly claims that power exists right
right right and so that language so if
you’re building realities with language
the question arises of
why you would do that and the answer
seems to be for the post-modernists is that it’s power
and that’s a quasi-marxism in right
right okay so you do you think that that
seems fair don’t you think
what would someone who was a
post-modernist agree with that definition
uh i mean yes the
the problem though is that postmodernism allows
for a complete breakdown of reality as
understood by a three-year-old it is a form
of this is why by the way in the book i
i refer to it as intellectual terrorism
and i don’t use these terms just to kind
of come up with
poetic prose i genuinely mean so i i
compare post-modernism
to the 911 hijackers who flew
planes onto buildings uh i
i argue that the postmodernists fly buildings
of into our edifices of reason
and maybe if i could share
a couple of personal interactions that i’ve had
with postmodernists that capture the
extent to which they depart from reality
may i do that sure and then we’ll get back to
elucidating the list of ideas that
you’ve you’ve defined as as parasitic
fantastic so in 2002 and i think this story might be
particularly relevant to you jordan because of course
you you know you broke through in the in the public conscience
because of the gender pronoun stuff well
you’ll see that this 2002 story
was prophetic in predicting what would
eventually happen so in 2002
one of my doctoral students had just uh defended his dissertation
and we were going out for a celebratory
dinner it was myself my wife
uh him and his date for the evening
and so he contacts me before the
the we you know we go out for the dinner and he
kind of gives me a heads up and he says
well you know my date is a
graduate student in cultural anthropology
radical feminism and post-modernism kind of the
holy trinity of and so i
basically the reason why he was telling
me this is he’s basically saying
hopefully please be on your best
behavior let’s not
yes and you recount this in the book
yeah okay so yeah
that’s okay no go ahead i’m just letting
everybody know yes yes exactly
and so uh i said oh yeah don’t worry i’m
you know i get it i get you this is your
night i’m gonna be on my best behavior
of course that wasn’t completely true
because i couldn’t resist
trying to at least get a sense what this woman
what her positions were so at one point
i said oh i hear that you are a
postmodernist yes do you mind so i’m an evolutionary psychologist
i i do believe that there are certain human universals
that serve as kind of a a bedrock of
uh similarities that we share whether we
are peruvian nigerian or
or japanese do you mind if i maybe
propose what i consider to be human
universal and then you can tell me
how that you don’t think that that’s the
case because absolutely go for it
is it not the case that within homo sapiens only women
bear children is that not a human
universal so then she
she scoffs at my stupidity at my narrow mindedness at my
misogyny says absolutely not no
it’s not true that women bear children
she said no because in
some japanese tribe in their mythical folklore
it is the men who bear children and so
by you restricting the conversation to the biological realm
that’s how you you know keep us barefoot and pregnant
so once i kind of recovered from hearing such a position
i then said okay well let me take a less
maybe less controversial or contentious
uh example is it not true from any
vantage point on earth
sailors since time immemorial have
relied on the premise that the sign
sun rises in the east and sets in the
west and here jordan she used the kind
of language creates reality the derida position
she goes well what do you mean by east
and west those are arbitrary labels
and what do you mean by the sun that
which you call the sun
i might call dancing hyena exact words
i said okay well the dancing hyena rises
in the east assets in the west
and she said well i don’t play those
label games so the reason why this
is a powerful story that i continuously recount and
hence included in the book is because
she wasn’t some
you know psychiatric patient who escaped
from the psychiatric institute she was
exactly aping what postmodernists
espouse on a daily basis to their
thousands of adoring students
when we can’t agree that only women bear children
and that there is such a thing as east
and west and that there is such a thing as the sun
then it’s intellectual terrorism
all right so back back to the the parasite idea
so sure okay no no let’s not do that
let’s finish listing the ideas that
you’d describe in your book as
as having this commonality so there’s post-modernism
and we already defined that as the hypothesis that
reality is constituted by language
right which by the way is a close as a close
ally to another idea pathogen social
constructivism or if you want
social constructivism on steroids which
basically and the reason why i add the on steroids because
social constructivism the idea that we
are prone to socialization no
serious behavioral scientists would
disagree with that and no avowed evolutionary behavioral
scientists would disagree with the idea that
socialization is is an important force
in shaping who we are
okay no no serious intellectual would
deny that language shapes our conceptions of reality
exactly right so the issue is degree
exactly the problem and hence the steroid part
is where you argue that everything that we are
is due to social constructivity right
it’s the collapse of a multivariate
scenario into a univariate scenario inappropriate collapse
and that’s by the way i remember your brilliant uh
chat with the woman from the british
woman that you know i don’t remember her name the
the the lobster stuff where cathy newman
cathy newman thank you
where you made exactly that point about
multifactorial right where you were
she was arguing everything related to the gender gap
must be due to misogyny when the reality
is that of course there might be 17
other factors with greater explanatory power that explains
why we’re there but she can’t see the
world in a in a multifactorial way she
only sees it as due to a single look
but this might that might have some
bearing on on the attractiveness of
of certain sets of ideas we might even
see if it’s the attractiveness of the
so-called parasitic ideas
i think it was einstein who said that it
probably wasn’t i probably got the
source wrong but it doesn’t matter that
a scientific explanation should be as simple as possible
but no simpler right right and so
and and that’s an occam’s razor exactly
with a bit of a modification there and you want to
a good theory buys you a lot and and
you want your theory to buy you as much
as possible because it means you only have to learn
a limited number of principles and you
can explain a very large number of
phenomena so um but
there’s there’s the attraction of the inappropriate collapse of
the complex landscape into its simplified
counterpart whereby you you rid yourself
of complexity that’s actually necessary and inevitable
what that means is that you couldn’t
make progress employing your theory in a
pragmatic way but if you don’t ever test it
in a way that it could be killed you’ll
never find that out right
and so it’s it’s very easy in my new book
which is called beyond order i wrote a
chapter called abandon ideology and
i’m making the point in there that um
you it’s it’s very tempting to collapse
the world into um to collapse the world such that
one explanatory mechanism can account for everything
and that it’s a game that intellectuals
are particularly good at because
their intellectual function enables them to generate
plausible causal hypotheses and so
you can take something like power or sexuality
or relative economic status or economics for that matter
or love or hate or resentment and you can
generate a theory that accounts for virtually everything
relying on only one of those factors and
that’s because virtually everything that human beings do
are is affected by those factors and so
that that that that’s that pro
is it it’s that it’s the attractiveness
of that simplification that accounts for
the attractiveness of these
is it the attractiveness of that
simplification that accounts for the
attractiveness of these parasitic ideas
so i would say the the idea of you or the the
the process of finding a simple
explanation for an otherwise more complex phenomenon
maybe could be linked to i don’t know if
you’re familiar with the work do you know
are you familiar with gert gigarenzer yes right so
so if you remember in his work which by
the way i love the fact that he roots it
in an evolutionary framework
yes i like his work a lot great i actually had gone
uh many years ago he he his group had
invited me to spend some time at the max planck institute
and so he’s got the idea of fast and frugal
heuristics right yes right it’s a
pragmatic theory essentially exactly
because it basically says look uh
you know economists think that
before we choose a given car
we engage in these elaborate laborious
calculations because we’re seeking to maximize our utility
because otherwise we we won’t pick the
optimal car if we don’t engage in utility maximization
of course while that’s a beautiful
normative theory it doesn’t describe
what consumers actually do because
you and i when we chose our last car we
didn’t look at all available options
on all available attributes before we
make a choice rather we couldn’t
we couldn’t we used too many exactly we
used a simplifying strategy
and in the backlash of digerenzer it would be a
fast and frugal heuristic because we’ve evolved i mean
if i sit there and calculate all of the
distribution functions of what happens
if i hear a rustling behind me that the
tiger will eat me before i finish all of the
distributions right the calculations all the distributions
therefore in many cases when i deploy a fast and frugal heuristic
it makes perfect adaptive sense but the downside of that
so to go back to your point is that
oftentimes i will apply
a fast and frugal heuristic when i
shouldn’t have done so
right so for certain complex phenomena my
innate pension to want to seek that
one causal mechanism is actually in this case suboptimal so
knowing when i should deploy the fast
and frugal heuristic and when i should
rely on more complex multifactorial reasoning
is the real challenge here okay so
so let’s say that a robust discipline
offers a set of simplifications that are pragmatically useful
okay and then being a
um developing mastery in the application of those heuristics
boosts you up the hierarchy that is
built around their utilization
okay so you have a theory that allows
you to get a grip on the world
and and to do things in the world like build bridges
and then if you’re good at applying that
theory you become good at building bridges and that
and because people value that that gives
you a certain amount of status and
and authority and maybe even power but
we’ll go for status and authority
so you have the simultaneous
construction of a system that allows you
to act in the world in a manner that
is productive but also organizes a social
organized society now it seems to me the
post-modernists get rid of the
application to the world side of things
so they really have constructed
a language game that actually operates
according to their principles of reality
it isn’t it isn’t hemmed in by the
constraints of the actual world except
in so far as that world
consists of a struggle for academic power
and endless definitions of reality
within the confines of a
of a language game i’ve actually argued
exactly for what you just said and
speculatively trying to explain why
otherwise intelligent people like michel
foucault and jacques lacan and jack derida
would have espoused all the nonsense
that they did and i argue
and i think there is some evidence to
support my otherwise speculative hypothesis
so let me let me put it in colloquial
terms so i am one of those
post-modernists i’m jacques laca or i’m
you know jack derida and i’m looking with envy at
the physicist and the biologists yeah
and the neuroscientists and the mathematicians
getting all the glory they’re the hot quarterbacks on campus
getting all the pretty uh women right uh
why aren’t we getting any attention well
you know what if i
create a world of full profundity where
i appear as though i’m saying something
deeply profound and meaningful
whereas in reality i’m uttering complete gibberish
then maybe my pros can be as impenetrable
as those hottie mathematicians right they are physicists
yep exactly i happen to be generally if
you do iq ranking among the disciplines
the physicists are the smartest surprise surprise
and so so we have physics envy exactly so
our physicist envy economists have physics envy
and that’s why they’ve created now sub
disciplines of economics that are
completely mathematical but fully devoid
from any real world applications it all stemmed originally from
wanting to be accepted in the in the at the table
of serious scientists right you’re
making two arguments now i think
i i think one is that
in the example you just gave it’s actually the
thinker that’s the parasite right because the thinker
wants to ratchet him or herself up the
hierarchy and attack who’s the thinker is it
yes exactly exactly the originators of
these of these theories
in your in your example they want to
accrue to themselves the meritorious
status that a true scientist or engineer
would have generated yes okay and so and
they do that by setting up a
false system that looks like the true system
but doesn’t have any of this real world practicality
and they justify that by eliminating the
notion of the real world
yes and so in that case going back to our earlier conversation
in that case the originator of the parasite
is actually getting i mean literally reproductive fitness
right well but it’s also acting as a
parasite on a system that’s functional
but then you could say on top of that
now he’s allowing ideas to enter his consciousness
and some of those will
some of those will fulfill the function
of producing this faux
reality in which he can rise and so it’s it’s
it’s a parasitical set of ideas within a parasitical strategy
yes yes i like it and by the way for it
for this particular parasitic sleight of hand
to work it relies actually on a
principle that you and i probably teach
in sort of the introductory psychology course so
fundamental attribution error the the idea
of that that people sometimes attribute
uh this dispositional traits to
otherwise for example situational
variables or vice versa right
i did well on the exam because i’m smart
rather than because the exam was easy right
well they jacques de vida being the brilliant
parasite that he was he was relying on
exactly that and let me explain how
if i get up in front of an audience so
now i’m jacques de vida
or jacqueline and i espouse a never-ending
concatenation of of syllables that are
completely void of semantic meaning
but that sound extraordinarily profound
two things can happen
the audience member can either say i
don’t understand what jacques laconte is saying
because i’m too dumb and he’s very profound
or i don’t understand what jack lacroix is saying
because he’s a charlatan who’s engaging in full profundity
well guess what most people in the
audience go for the former
right when i when i explained this to my
wife by the way she said you know what
you just liberated me
from a sense of feeling that i was inadequate in college
when i did it’s really a complicated problem like
look my assumption generally is that if i don’t
it’s not always this that i can’t read
physics papers in physics journals um
i’m not mathematically gifted and so there are
all sorts of scientific and mathematical claims that i can’t
evaluate yeah but most of the time when i read a book
if i don’t understand it
i believe that the author hasn’t made it clear
and and i’ve read some difficult people
i’ve read jung who’s unbelievably difficult um
nietzsche uh and neuroscience texts
jacques pancep jeffrey gray gray’s book neuropsychology of anxiety
that bloody book took me six months to
read it’s a tough book it’s 1500
references something like that and
an idea pretty much in every sentence
very very carefully written but a very
complicated book but i
hit the i read foucault and i could
understand him but i thought most of
what he said was trivial
of course power plays a role in human
behavior but it doesn’t play the only role
of course mental illness definitions are
socially constructed in part
every psychiatrist worth his salt knows
that it’s hardly a radical claim
um when i hit lacan and derek i was like no
sorry what you guys are saying it’s not
that i’m stupid it’s that you’re playing a game
you had enough self-confidence in your cognitive abilities
that you didn’t succumb to their
fundamental attribution sleight of hand right
so you you’re one of those rare animals
that said wait a minute
he’s saying because i know that i can think
and i’m not getting him the problem is
that most people that are sitting
passively in the audience
didn’t come with your confidence well
maybe that’s it maybe it’s that they
also didn’t have a good alternative like
i was fortunate eh because by the time i started reading
that sort of thing i’d always already established
something approximating a career path in
in psychology in clinical psychology
with that with a heavy biological
basis and so but if i was a student who
had encountered nothing but
that kind of theorizing and i i was interested in
in having an academic career i might well believe that
learning how to play that particular language game
was valid and also the only route to
success i mean one of the things that
really staggers me about
the post-modernist types that i read and encounter
is that they they have absolutely no exposure to biology
as a science whatsoever they don’t know anything about
evolutionary theory by the way not just post-modernists
most social scientists yes certainly the
ones walking around in the business school
think that biology is some nazi vulgar
oh it’s the same it’s the same in
psychology to some degree and but my
my sense has been that psychology has managed to steer
clear of the worst excesses of let’s call it this
this degeneration into
this abandonment of pragmatic yeah
necessity they’ve managed to steer clear
to that to the degree that they’re
that these sub-disciplines have been rooted in biology
it’s actually been a corrective it’s
interesting you say this because i
i and i discussed this briefly in the book i gave once
uh when my first book was released this
this one right here evolutionary basis of consumption
uh this is a book where i try to explain
how you can apply evolutionary thinking
to understand our consumatory nature
uh i had given two talks at uh university of michigan
the first day on i think it was a thursday i gave
uh the exact same thought in the so i
was giving the exact same talk
in two different buildings two different audiences
on one day it was in the psychology department and as
for your viewers who don’t know
university of michigan has consistently
always ranked in you know the top three
to five psychology departments in
the united states my former doctoral
supervisor got his phd in psychology
in university of michigan uh he actually overlapped with amos
versky by the way just a little bit of a historical uh
you know uh parenthesis uh so i give the talk
on thursday in front of the psychology department
and because as you said
many of them are neuroscientists
biological psychologists and so on
they’re listening to it and they’re like
oh yeah this is gorgeous good stuff god love it
the exact same talk the next day at the business school
which again you would think based on
what we said earlier they should be very
pragmatic in their theoretical orientations if
if something explains behavior then i should accept it
but because they were so bereft of biological based thinking
jordan i couldn’t get through a single sentence it was
as if i was metaphorically dodging
tomatoes being thrown at me i couldn’t
get through maybe five or six slides of my
talk because they were so aghast and
and felt such disdain for my
arguing that consumers are driven by
biological mechanisms and so
business schools can drift away from the real world
um i think more effectively than the
engineering schools can or or the biologists
and you’d hope that the necessity of
contending with free market realities
would protect the business school to some degree
but my experience with business schools
while often positive has often been that
um the theorizers couldn’t necessarily
produce a business right well it’s interesting because
i found that when i give a talk in front of
business practitioners then it’s always very well received
when i give that same talk in front of business school professors
depending on how vested they are in their aquari paradigms
it either goes well or not so if they
are hardcore social constructivists
then i am a nazi i am a biological
vulgarizer it’s it’s grotesque what are
you talking about with all this hormone business
so the practitioners are not vested
in a paradigm if i can offer them some
guidelines for how to design advertising
messages that are maximally effective
using an evolutionary lens
they go sure sign me up i don’t care
right right because there’s a there’s a
practical problem to me
so everybody has two practical problems we might say
broadly speaking one is contending with the actual world
so because you have to get enough to eat
that that’s the world of biological necessity
and then there’s the world of
sociological necessity which is
which is produced by the fact that you
have to be with others while you
solve your biological problems and you
can solve your biological problems by
adapting extraordinarily well to the sociological world
as long as the sociological world has
its tendrils out in the world and is solving problems so
you can be a postmodernist and believe
that there’s nothing in the world except
language as long as the university is
nested in a system that’s dealing with
the world well enough to feed you
and that isn’t your immediate problem so
you lose the corrective
okay so let’s continue with the list of
let me give you another one that i think
you’re particularly i think sensitive to
it you’ve probably also opined on
so the die religion which stems from
identity politics another idea pattern die
is the acronym for diversity inclusion and equity
that is such a dreadfully bad
parasitic idea because it really removes
so let’s again speak in the context of
academia but it could apply to other contacts that
apply to hr departments human resources department
yes i i think before i start
are you you’re out of your position at
the university of toronto now jordan are you or
leave you’re on leave okay well maybe
it’s a good thing because
since you were last at the university environment
the thai religion has only proliferated with much greater
alacrity so that now when you apply to grants
for grants uh you know with all of the
major grants the equivalent
for our american viewers the equivalent
of say an nsf grant the national science foundation
we have similar grants for people in engineering
or social sciences or natural sciences in canada
you have to have a a die statement that basically says
you know you know what have you done in
the past to to advance
die causes what will you do if you get
this grant if you if
this grant were granted to you how would you uphold
die principles and there is a colleague of mine
a physical that’s for sure
oh my god exactly so yeah that’s unbelievable
a physical chemist at one of our mutual
alma maters mcgill university maybe i’ve
given too much information here
was denied a grant because
it didn’t pass the die threshold right in other words
it didn’t matter what was what was the substantive content
of his grant application the scientific content
he just wasn’t sufficiently conv by the way right so
so that’s an indication that’s a situation where
the elevation of that particular ideological game
that’s been elevated over the game of science
exactly now that would be fine if they were both games
but science isn’t a game
right it’s a technique for solving it’s
a technique for solving genuine problems
science is what allows you and i friends
that haven’t otherwise seen each other physically
for many years to reconnect today and
have a fantastic conversation
as if we were sitting next to each other
it’s science that did that it’s not postmodernism
it’s not bugabooga it’s not indigenous knowledge
now again people think let me mention
what i just said now indigenous knowledge
yeah people will think oh oh that’s
racist that’s that’s that’s hateful
if i want to study something about the flora or
fauna of an indigenous territory where
indigenous people have lived there for thousands of years
i can defer to their domain specific knowledge
because they’ve lived within that ecosystem so
specific knowledge about a particular
phenomenon could be attributed to group a knowing
more than group b that’s what ethnobotanists do
exactly but the epistemology
of how i study the flora or
fauna how i adjudicate scientific issues
within that ecosystem there isn’t a
competition between the scientific method
and indigenous way of knowing there is
only one game in town it’s called the scientific method
yeah well that’s what knowing is that’s
the thing that’s why there’s only one game is because
there there’s there
as soon as we use the word knowing and we
apply it in a domain that would pertain
to indigenous knowledge and a domain
that would pertain to science as soon as we use the
uniting word knowledge we’re
presupposing that knowledge is one
thing and knowledge is knowledge has to be something like
the use of abstractions to predict and control
the use of abstractions to predict and
control it’s as simple as that and
you could be predicting and controlling
all sorts of things but
you act in a way you act in a manner
that is intended to produce the outcome that you desire
and the better you are at that the more knowledge you have
right so imagine if now in the university
you’re the dye principles are not only
being used to determine who gets a shared professorship
who gets a grant uh who do we hire as an assistant professor
uh but it’s also used to make the point
that there isn’t a singular epistemology
for seeking truth which by the way i
would love later to talk about chapter
seven in my book where i talk about
how to seek truth which is maybe relevant to
the many conversations that you and sam
have had because i introduced
i think a a a very powerful way
of adjudicating different claims of
truth and we can talk about that as soon
as that’s the nominological network
exactly thank you jordan so we can talk
about that if you want later
but i mean imagine how grotesque it is
to teach students that i mean is there a lebanese
jewish way of knowing is there a green
eyed people way of knowing is there an indigenous way
the distribution of prime numbers is the
distribution of prime numbers
irrespective of the identity of the
person who is studying the distribution of prime numbers
isn’t that what liberates us from the
shackles of our personal identity you
know when you can say that
and you can still say that people use
knowledge to obtain power
that’s a primary that’s a primary post-modernist
claim people use knowledge to obtain
power now that gets
exaggerated into the statement that people
only use knowledge to obtain power and
that’s all that’s worth
obtaining and then of course that
becomes wrong because both of those
claims are too extreme
but even in science you can criticize
science and the manner in which science is
practiced by saying well scientists are biased
just and self-interested just like all other people
and they’re going to use their theories
to advance themselves in the sociological world
yes and and and then you can be
skeptical of their theories for exactly that reason
but then you also have to point out that
well scientists have recognized this and just like
the wise founders of the american state
put in a balance a system of checks and balances
scientists have done the same thing and said well because
we’re likely to be blinded
even when making the most objective
claims about reality that we can we’re
likely to be blinded by our
self-interest so we’ll put scientists into
verbal competition with one another to help
determine who’s playing a straight game
and so the checks are already there and and
which which is to say that you can adopt
much of the criticism
that the postmodernists level against
the scientific game without throwing the
baby out with the bathwater
you still say well despite all that
despite the human nature
despite the primate nature of the
scientific endeavor and the jockeying
for position that goes along with it
there’s still a residual that constitutes
progressive um what progressive
expansion of the domain of knowledge
well so when you’re talking about the checks and balances
that replication is something that is
central to the scientific method
that is second nature in physics or
chemistry or biology but not in the social sciences
is where the social sciences fail now
obviously you know about the reproducibility
crisis and so on i mean i i yeah i was
always less pessimistic than
about that than everyone else because i
or not everyone but most people because
i always assumed that
95 of what i was reading wasn’t
reproducible and that we were bloody
fortunate if we ever got
five percent of our research findings
right it’s still five percent
five percent improvement in knowledge if
that’s an annual rate let’s say that’s
an unbelievably rapid rate of knowledge accrual and
if ninety-five percent of it is noise well
c’est la vie it it’s not a hundred percent but
but by the way that’s one of the things
that i love so much about evolutionary psychology which
might allow us to segue eventually into neurological networks
is uh many of the phenomena
that evolutionists study by the very nature of
for example them there being human universals
it forces you to either engage in a
conceptual replication or rather a direct replication
of that phenomenon so for example if you want to demonstrate
that facial symmetry is one of the
markers that are used when deciding that someone is beautiful
i can demonstrate that in 73 different cultures
right right we could talk about the
normal logical networks a little bit so
this is a this is a way to establish let
me let me introduce it a bit
okay because i think this is a simple
way of introducing it
what you want to do to demonstrate that
something is real you sort of triangulate
except you use more than three positions
of reference so for example
we’ve evolved our senses are a normal logical
network system so we say that something is real
if we can see it taste it smell it
touch it and hear it now each of those senses
relies on a different set of physical phenomena
so they’re unlikely to be correlated randomly
and we’ve evolved five senses because
it’s been our experience evolutionarily
that unless you can
identify something with certainty across five independent dimensions
it’s not necessarily real but we go even
farther than that in our attempts to
define what’s real outside of our conceptions
once we’ve established the reality of
something using our five senses
then we consult with other people to see
if we can find agreement on the
phenomenon and then we assume that if my five senses
and your five senses report the same
thing especially if there’s 50 of us and not just two
and that and across repeated occasions
then probably that thing is real and a
normal logical network is sort of the
formalization of that idea
across measurement techniques in the
sciences yeah i i love the way you use the census to
introduce this because there is a term
that i didn’t i didn’t describe this
phenomenon in the parasitic mind but
i’ve discussed it in other contexts
i call it sensorial convergence so for
example there’s a classic study in evolutionary psychology
by uh two folks that i know well one of whom is
a friend of mine randy thornhill where they
asked women to rate the pleasantness
of t-shirts that were worn by men
and it turns out that the one that they judge as
most pleasing of olfactorially speaking
is the one that is also identifying the guy
who is the most symmetric yes so in other words
there is sensorial convergence so that
two independent senses are arriving
at the same final product in this case
the product being the optimal mail
for me to choose and it would make
perfect evolutionary sense for there to
be that sensorial conversion so
right and in the in the book you
introduced the nomological network which
isn’t discussed
very frequently in books that are that are written
popularly right that’s an idea that that
hasn’t been discussed much
yes outside of specialty courses say in
in methodology in psychology i actually
think the psychologist came up with the
idea of normal logical network
so i’m going to describe what you just
said and tell you how my
approach of neurological answers is if
is grander if you’d like
so the the folks who came up with the
term normal logical networks and psychology
were coming up with a homological
network of triangulated evidence
when establishing the validity of a psychological construct right
so you’re establishing convergent
validity and discriminant validity right
uh the the campbell and fisk stuff which
by the way if there are any graduate
students in psychology what
never mind graduate students psychology
any any student should read the 1959 paper
the multi-trait multi-method matrix by campbell and fix
it’s one of the most right and there’s
an earlier one as well by cronbach and
meal in 1955.
struck validity and psychological tests
exactly right and it was part of the
american psychological association’s
efforts to develop standards for
psychological testing so it is
in fact a method of defining what’s real
how do you know that something’s real
and that’s what a normal
so if each of these validity constructs points to
ticking off this this construct as being valid
then i’ve now in a normal logical
network sense establish the
the veracity of that construct the
validity of that construct right and
that’s actually something a bit different than
maybe than a pragmatic uh a proof of truth because
from the pragmatic perspective the the theory is evaluated
with regards to its utility as a tool this is more
more like an analogy to sensory reality exactly
if something registers across multiple different
methods of detecting it it’s probably real
detecting it across cultures
across space across time
across methodologies across paradigms so
it’s really the grand daddy
of nomological networks if cronbach and
campbell and fisk were talking in a more
limited sense of how do you validate
a psychological contra construct this is
saying how do you
validate the veracity of a phenomenon
how do i establish that toy preferences
are not singularly socially constructed
how can i establish that
so maybe right and you do that by
studying primates for example you study
prime so not here i’m doing a cross
species now i’m gonna do across cultures
now i’m gonna do a cross time period and
then you might look at
androgenized versus non-androgenized
children and you can look across
a variation in hormonal status i am so delighted by how
closely you’ve read the book i am
honored my good man uh
that you’re exactly right and so if
one box within my pneumological network
did not convince you
often times the the data in that one box
is sufficient to convince you
but if it isn’t then by assiduously
building that entire network
i’m gonna drown you in a tsunami of evidence
and so i i consider this an incredibly powerful way
to adjudicate between competing by the
way this is why
in the book i demonstrate that it is not
only used for scientific phenomena or evolutionary phenomena
by building a normal logical for the question of
is islam a peaceful religion or not in other words
i could use this this grand epistemological tool
to tackle important phenomena even if
they are outside the realm of science
does that make sense yes definitely well
it’s a matter of
it so to to put it simply it’s a matter of collecting evid
okay um if you study us
if if you approach a phenomenon from
one perspective you might see a pattern
there but then the question is
are you seeing that pattern because of
your method or are you seeing that pattern
like are you reading into the data or
the data revealing the pattern
and the answer to that is with one
methodology you don’t
know exactly so what you want to do is
use multiple methodologies and
and the more separate they are in their approach
the better and so when i wrote my when i
wrote maps of meaning which was my first book
i wanted i was looking for patterns and
but i was skeptical of it i wanted to ensure that
the patterns i was looking at
sociologically and in literature
and were also manifest in psychology and in neuroscience
and i thought that that was ford that gave me
the ability to use four dimensions
of triangulation so to speak right and the claim
was well if the pattern emerges across these disparate
modes of approach it’s probably it there’s more
there’s a higher probability that it’s
real and so a psychology that’s
biologically informed is going to be
richer than one that isn’t because
your theory has to not only account for
behavior let’s say in the instance
but it also has to be in accord with
what’s currently known about the
function of the brain
exactly and that’s the approach that
you’re taking to analysis of business problems
exactly and by the way it it is truly a
liberating way to view the world because
it allows you in a sense to
so if you have epistemic humility you’re able to say
you know if now you jordan you were to
ask me hey you know in canada
justin trudeau passed the laws legalizing cannabis
what do you think of those laws well
then i would say you know what i have
epistemic humility i simply don’t know enough
i haven’t built the requisite normal logical network
to pronounce a definitive position on
this on the other hand
if you ask me a question on a phenomenon
for which i have built my nomological network
then i can enter that debate at that conversation
with all the epistemic swagger that i’m afforded
by the protection of having built that gnomological network
so it’s a really wonderful way to view
the world because it allows me to exactly know
when i can engage an issue with with
with well-deserved self-assuredness
and where and when i should say you know
i really just don’t know enough about this topic
and by the way and someone like you
who’s of course also been a professor for many years
if you establish that epistemic honesty with your students
it’s actually quite powerful because if
an undergraduate student asks me a
question and in front of everyone i say
wow you really stumped me with that
question you know what why don’t you
send me an email and let me look into it
what that does is it builds trust with
those students because it’s saying
this guy is not standing up in front of
us pretending to know everything as a matter of fact
he was willing to admit that he was
stumped by the student of a 20 year old
okay so so let’s let let me ask you something about that
epistemic humility in relate because we
want to tie this back
you defined a number of um intellectual subfields as
included in this parasitic network let’s say
um under the parasitic rubric
and it be reasonable to say that one of the
then you’re left with a question which
is how do you identify valid
theories of knowledge from invalid theories of knowledge
it seems to me that post-modernism has
to deny biological science because
biological science keeps producing
facts claims keeps making claims that are
incommensurate with the post-modernists
now it seems to me that a reasonable approach
would be to say well the claim can’t be real unless it
meets the tenets of the postmodernist theory but also
manifests itself in the biological sciences
it has to do both
it can’t just do one or the other
now maybe that wouldn’t work for the
biologists but the fact that the postmodernists
tend to throw biology out is one of the facts that sheds
disrepute on their intellectual endeavor
as far as i’m concerned because
if they were honest theorists
they’d look for what was solid in
biology and ensure that the theories
that they’re constructing were in
accordance with that rather than having to throw the
the entire science out the window either
by omission not knowing anything about
it or by defining it as
politically suspect and so so i’ll
introduce here another term i didn’t discuss this
much in in this book in the parasitic
mind but i certainly have discussed it
in some of my other words
so the the notion of conciliance
which is so let me let me introduce this
term for for your viewers who don’t know it
the the term was reintroduced into the
vernacular by e.o wilson
the the harvard biologist uh
who wrote a book in the late 1990s of
that title conciliance unity of knowledge
so conciliance is very much related to
the idea of neurological networks because
consilience is basically saying that can you put
a bunch of things under one explanatory rubric so
physics is more consistent than sociology
not necessarily although notwithstanding
what you said earlier about the iq of physicists
it’s not because physicists are smart
and sociologists are dumb
it’s because physicists operate using
a conciliant tree of knowledge
which by the way evolutionary theorists
also do you start with a
meta theory that then goes
into mid-level theories which then goes
into universal phenomena which then generates hypotheses
so that the field becomes very organized
the problem with postmodernists
is that they exist in a leaf node of right
it is perfectly unrelated to any
consilient tree of knowledge
therefore they could never advance
anything because as you said earlier
they exist within an ecosystem where they
reward one another but they can never build
coherence right that’s why physics and
biology and the neurosciences and chemistry are prestigious
it’s not because they are necessarily
more scientific than sociology
it’s because they take conciliance at heart
does that make sense
yes it it i mean i think to some degree too that
you know you also have to note that the
phenomena that physicists deal with
are in some sense simpler than the
phenomena that sociologists deal with right so
the physicists and the chemists and even
the biologists to some degree have
plucked the low-hanging fruit
that’s augusto cult by the way who said
this right august cult
created a hierarchy of the sciences and
perhaps because he was a sociologist inclined
he he placed sociology at the apex of the
sciences precisely arguing what you just said which is
it’s a lot easier to study the crystallography
of a diamond than it is to study the
rich complexity of humans within a social system
right although it that doesn’t make it
simple it’s still really complicated so
so i you know it still requires a
tremendous amount of intelligence to be a physicist
and to manage the mathematics because although the
theories have tremendous explanatory
power they’re still very sophisticated so okay so
i i’ve been trying to think about this
from the perspective of a postmodernist to say
well we’re making the claim that biology
and chemistry and physics all these this multitude
of pragmatic disciplines engineering um
to some degree psychology and business
they’re valid enterprises and they need
to take each other’s findings into account
so the post-modernist might say well these
variant various disciplines don’t take
our findings into account
and so they’re being just as exclusionary
as we are right now is that a valid argument
no because there are no useful uh
findings that they’ve come up with and
if you annoy any please tell me about them
i actually challenged are they useful in restructuring
society so that it’s fairer
no why not that’s the claim right and no no no
no but it’s not that straightforward because
it’s not like so let’s let’s make the
presumption for a moment that these are
essentially left-wing theories it’s
it’s the case that it’s not the case
that the left wing politically has had nothing to offer
the improvement of society right you see
all sorts of ideas that are
generated initially by the left that
move into the mainstream that
have have made society a more civil
place i mean maybe that’s the
introduction of the eight-hour workday
or the 40-hour workweek or
universal pension or at least in canada and
and most other countries apart from the united states
universal health care and i mean almost
everybody now presumes that those things are
um that they’ve improved the quality of
life for everyone rich and poor alike
and and i think
i think that that’s a reasonable claim
is the is the
is the are the claims of the
post-modernists justified by the
political effects of their actions
can you give me an example of a postmodernist
nugget that had it not been espoused
specifically by a postmodernist the world would be
a poorer place whether it be practically theoretically
epistemologically can you think of one
off the top of your head jordan
i can only do it generally like in the
manner that i just did to say that well
it’s it’s part of it’s part of the the
the domain of left-wing thought and it’s
not reasonable to assume that nothing of
any benefit has come out of the domain of
left-wing thought it’s i mean that’s a very general
it’s a very general analysis i’m not
pointing to a particular theorem
for example right but see take for example
in your field of clinical psychology we can say
okay cognitive behavior therapy by
studying that process and then by
testing it using the scientific method
in terms of its efficacy in reducing
anxiety symptoms in in patients
if i say nothing more i’ve just offered
a single example of a valuable
insight coming from clinical psychology
whether it be theoretical
or in the practice of therapy and of
course there are many more than that singular
cbd example that i just gave it would
not be hyperbolic for me to say
and maybe i don’t know enough about
post-modernism but i think i do
you can’t even come up with one i don’t
mean you i mean in general yeah
no one can come up with a single example
as simple as me just enunciating the
the value of cognitive behavior therapy
at that level you can’t come up with one postmodernist insight
the only insight that we have is that we
are shackled by subjectivity
we are shackled by our personal biases
and that is true
and any human being with a functioning
brain could have told you that
so do we need to build that kind of criticism
has been leveled within fields by the
practitioners in those fields many times
including by the postmodernist to their field
i i i would hesitate to say i would say you know
reflexively i would say no because if
everything’s a language game then why
play the post-modernist game
you know why does it why does it obtain
privileged status in the hierarchy of of truth claims if
if if if there’s nothing more than the
world that’s produced by language
well i i i think i mean because some of
your viewers might be saying well why
are they spending so much time on postmodernism and
there are other idea practices the
reason why actually it’s important to
talk about post-modernism because it’s
it’s a fundamental attack on the epistemology of truth
that’s right and that is something we
need to point out why that’s right
exactly right so so i had a a a very
good friend of mine who actually happens
to be a clinical psychologist
also just a lovely guy uh who
once asked me very politely he said you know god
do you mind if i ask you a personal
question i said go ahead
he said how come you are such a truth
defender and so on
and you’re perfectly happy to criticize
all these leftist idea pathogens
very much along the lines of what how
you started our conversation today jordan
and yet you’re not as critical of donald trump’s
attacks on truth and so let me answer
that question here because in a second
that’s a good one right so trump
attacks specific truth statements
i have the biggest penis all women have
told me that i’m the greatest lover
ever there’s never been a president who is
as great as me i have the biggest audiences
at my rallies each of these might be demonstrably
false and lies and therefore they are
attacks on a particular truth statement
that to me is a lot less problematic while
it is reprehensible i disagree with any form of lying
that is a lot less concerning to me than
a group of folks that are devoted
to attacking the epistemology of truth
okay define that and and define the epistemology of truth
so that we can get right down for the body is a way
of tackling truth the normological
networks that we spoke about earlier
is a way of adjudicating between
competing statements as to what is true or not
those are so the scientific method and
and all of its offshoots are ways by which
we’ve agreed that that’s the epistemology by which
we create core knowledge and then build
that front right okay so so let’s let’s
outline that a little bit so
so that’s that’s a really good point i
so there are there are degrees
there are degrees of assault on truth
yes and the more fundamental the axiom that you’re
assaulting the more dangerous your assault bingo
okay so so the non-postmodernist claim
so maybe this is the enlightenment claim
perhaps is that there is a reality
i think it’s deeper than that because i
think it’s that’s actually grounded in
in judeo-christian christianity and and even
and and grounded far beyond that
probably grounded in biology itself
but it doesn’t matter for the sake of
this discussion there is an objective world
there is a knowable reality yes
okay there’s a no knowable reality that
multiple people can have access to
there’s a noble reality but our biases and
and limitations intellectually and and physiologically
make it difficult for us to to know it
it’s complex and we’re limited
there’s a method by which we can overcome that
the method is the nomological method
which you just described
essentially which is the the use of multiple
um lines of evidence yes
lines of evidence derived from multiple sources multiple people
multiple places across time that enables us to determine
with some certainty what that objective reality is
that enables us to predict and control things
for our benefit beautiful okay
and the post the post modernists
the postmodern attack is on all of that
everything it’s that’s
and that’s why now i hope you might
agree that it’s not too
harsh for me to say they are
intellectual terrorists because they put
these little bombs of bs that blow up the
pneumological network that blows up the epistemology of truth
right and so you’re making a claim even
beyond that though in in the book which is
and this is the claim that i want to get
right to which is that
they put forward that theory in order to
benefit from being theorists
that that benefit accrues to them
personally as they ratchet themselves up their
respective intellectual hierarchies and gain the status
and power that goes along with that and
the fact that it does
damage to the entire system of knowledge itself
is irrelevant that’s that’s
that’s that’s uh
what do you call that damage that you
don’t mean when you bomb something
collateral damage collateral damage
right so they’re willing to
sacrifice the entire game of truth seeking
to the promotion of their own individual careers within this
within the language hierarchy that that
that they’ve built and by the way that you you hit
on a wonderful segue to another i think
important point in the book
and that is the distinction between deontological ethics
and consequentialist ethics right
deontological ethics for the viewers who don’t know
if i say it is always wrong to lie
that’s an absolute statement right if i say
it is okay to lie if i’m trying to spare
my spouse’s feelings that’s a consequential statement
well it turns out in many cases
the ones who espouse those parasitic idea pathogens
are engaging their consequentialist
ethical system right because what they’re saying is
if i murder truth in the service of this more important
noble social justice goal so be it
right whereas if you are an absolutist a deontological
you’re positing an objective reality
even in the domain of ethics
well that’s another place where the the postmodern
effort fails is that it can’t help but
refer to things that are outside of
the language game so by relying on consequentialist
ethics and i’d have to i haven’t been
able to think it through
just figure out whether i agree with
your claim that the postmodernists tend
to be consequentialists it makes sense to me
and i think that their emphasis on hurt
feelings is an indication of that
right never because there’s no objective
reality you can’t sacrifice people’s
feelings or lived experience
to any claim about objective reality
but by doing that they elevate the subjective
to the position of ultimate authority
and you know maybe that’s maybe that’s
part of the driving motivation
is the the the desire to elevate the subjective
to omniscience exactly and and this is why
and so i know you’re not mathematically
uh you know minded
but if i can just divert into my background of mathematics
in the book i talk about the field of operations research
which is the field where you try to
xamaritize if you’d like to to put in axiomatic form
the objective function that you’re
trying to maximize or minimize right
so for example when i was a a research
assistant when i was a
undergrad and a graduate student i
worked on a problem called the
two-dimensional cutting stock problem
so if you have for example rectangles of metal
and you get an order to produce
20 x by y sub sheets within that broader metal
how should i do the cut as to minimize the waste of metal
so operations research is a field that
is commonly applied for example in
in business problems where you’re trying
to minimize the queue time that consumers weight
or maximize profits right so it’s a very
very complicated mathematical field applied mathematics field
to solve real world problems so now
let’s apply it to this consequentialist story
in the old days the objective function of a university
was maximize maximize intellectual growth
maximize uh human knowledge
today it is on the idea that there was knowledge
that was that was genuine there was a difference between
forms of knowledge some were better than
others some are more valid than others
right so that’s part of the claim that
you can have knowledge at all
exactly whereas now the objective function is
minimize hurt feelings or it might be maximize
learning whilst minimizing her feelings well you know
i wouldn’t mind that so much if if the claim that
feelings were ultimately real was made
tangible because then at least we’d have
an ultimate reality that was outside of words but
you can’t say that the world is a
construct of words and then
say at the same time but there’s nothing
more real than my subjective feelings
like i have some sympathy for that
because i’m not sure that there is anything more real than pain
all things considered like pain seems really real to me
and it’s fundamentally subjective
and i think that a lot of what we consider ethical behavior
is an attempt to minimize pain given its fundamental reality
so it’s not like i don’t believe that
subjective feelings are real and important
but i’m willing to claim that there is such a thing
as real and important and true and so
it’s so it’s it’s logically coherent for me to
to to to make that claim it’s the
incoherence of the claims that bothers me
well it’s part of what bothers me well
we should we should probably sum up to some degree
because we’ve been i know i know i but
i’m starting to get
i’m starting to get tired and and i’m
starting to lose my train of
concentration and so i don’t
i don’t want to do anything but a top
rate job on this let me summarize for a
second what we’ve discussed and then
if you have other things to add that we
haven’t talked about then we can go there so
we talked about ideas as parasites and
and then we spent some time
unraveling what parasite might meant might mean and
the conversation moved so that we kind
of built a two-dimensional
or a two-strata model of paracitation of
a parasitical idea there’d be the
parasitical behavior of the theorist who puts forth
a theory that mimics a practically useful theory
in a in in the attempt to accrue to himself
or herself goods that have been produced
by theories that actually have broad practical utility
so there’s that and then there’s the parasitical idea that
serves that function for the person
who’s using it in a parasitical way okay so
and then we talked about um
postmodern ideas in particular as examples of that
and i guess the one one of the things we
haven’t tied together there is
exactly how the why is it necessary or
why has it happened that the
ontological and epistemological claims of the postmodernists
aid and abet the parasitical function
that’s that’s a tough one like
why did they take the
the shape they actually took yeah that’s
i actually i
i make an attempt to explain that and let
me know if if you buy it so remember
earlier i was talking about
what are some of the commonalities
across the idea pathogens
yeah and i said that they they kind of
start off with a kernel of truth and they
start off with some noble original goal
the other thing that i would say which i think
answers the question that you just posed
is that each of those idea pathogens
frees us from the pesky shackles of reality
right so in a sense they are liberating right so postmodernism
yes liberates me from capital t
truth there is my truth there is my lived experience
the prefix liberates me
from the shackles of my biology and my
genitalia so it’s the attractiveness of that
liberation that that provides the
that provides the motive at least in
part of the parasite
exactly right i if biology is useless i
don’t need to know anything about it
and people do that a lot people do that
a lot look social constructivism another
one of those idea pathogens
frees me from the shackles of
realizing that i will never be nor will
my son be the next michael jordan
because social constructivism as
espoused originally in by
behaviorism right the the famous quote
which i i cite in the book
give me 12 children and i can make
anyone a beggar or a surgeon or whatever
that is basically saying that it’s only the
unique socialization forces that
constrain you in life
that don’t turn you into the next
michael jordan there is nothing
a priery that didn’t start us all
with equal potentiality well that’s a lovely message
well it’s two now you got two messages
there is my subjective reality is the only reality
that’s the first thing and the second
thing is socialization can produce any outcome
so that’s a huge that’s a huge exp
that’s a huge expansion of my potential power
right i’m right by dint of my existence
and my ability to modify the nature of reality is
without without restriction yeah exactly
exactly and therefore it is hopeful
because it frees me from the shackles
of the constraints of reality right i
want to believe that
any child that i could have produced
could have genuinely had
an equal probability of being the next
albert einstein or michael jordan that’s
hopeful that’s wonderful
it’s also rooted in right so i
think all of these idea pathogens
share the the common desire for people to
believe hopeful messages that are rooted in nonsense
well that’s probably a good place to start
hey jordan so nice to see you we’ve been
discussing the parasitic mind
by Gad Saad and
when was it published uh october 6
of this past year so it’s just a bit
more than three months how is it doing
it’s if it’s do if you’re comparing it to all possible
books it’s a match smashing success if
we compare it to jordan peterson’s last book
then it’s not doing very well so it’s life is about
i don’t want to compare my next book to that book so
but it’s been doing well eh it’s doing
very well thank you oh good i’m i’m glad
to hear it i’m glad to hear it so
do you think we did we miss anything in our discussion
well i like what we did but is was the
discussion sufficiently complete so that
you’re satisfied with it i i
more than anything i’m just satisfied
that you’re feeling better that
your family’s doing well that you’re
back into this on the saddle
and that hopefully will have your voice
and i’ve been trying to hold the fort but
having someone like you missing makes it
that much tougher so i’m i’m so glad you’re back
big e hug to you and thank you so much
for inviting me jordan thank you it um
thank you very much for
for talking with me i found it very
enjoyable and i i felt that i
i got i know something more than i did when i started
the conversation which is always the
hallmark of a good conversation and
um i mean we can dig into these things
the things we discussed today endlessly
we never get to the bottom of them fully but
but maybe a little bit farther with each genuine conversation
and and maybe maybe the next when your book comes out
you’ll be sure to come on my uh show so
that we can decide yes well if i if i have the wherewithal
and the energy i’d be happy to do that and
maybe we can discuss some of the things
that where we haven’t established any
concordance i know that
i i’ll just i noticed that you had talked
admiringly about role theory in the parasitic mind and
i kind of and i’ve noticed before that
you’re not very fond of the idea of
archetypes and i thought
without something we could talk about at
some point because let’s do it i think
archetypes are biologically instantiated roles and so
it seems to me that we could probably
come to some agreement on that front
i actually agree with you if we leave it
within the biological realm
then an analysis of archetypes works
well for me when we start
introducing a bit of the kind of mythological
occultist stuff that regrettably one of your heroes engages
in that’s when i start yeah well that’s
something that we could profitably discuss
because i i think there’s a much stronger biological
um well look at it this way god if you imagined
imagine a culture imagined an ideal
and then imagine that approximations to that ideal
people who approximated that ideal were
more biologically fit as a consequence
they were more attractive
which you would be if you embodied a true ideal
well so what that would mean is that
over time the society would come to
evolve towards its imagined ideal
yes so that makes a biologically
instantiated archetype a very complicated thing
because it starts in imagination but it ends
instantiated in biology and and no one’s
ever come up with a real mechanism for that
right it doesn’t but but that works you
you posit an ideal
then if you manifest it you’re more
attractive then the ideal starts to become
something that evolution tilts toward
so i’m in agreement with everything you
said so maybe we won’t have much to disagree about
yeah well we’ll we should be able to
clear things up anyways and sometimes
that’s a good way of resolving disagreements
i look forward to adjourning so okay
okay god thanks very much hey
my pleasure all right bye bye bye
[Music]
[END.]

They who Own The Law, Own the Banks.
They who Own ^^ … Own the Corporations.
^^ … Own the Media.
^^ … Own the Governments.
^^ … Own the World.
And it is so.
A corrupted world ruled by Common Law & Contract Law. Lawyers, Bankers, Bureaucrats.
All loyal to secret societies.

The Knights Templar, The Knights of Malta. Freemasons.
Some call them the Illuminati. The Vatican. Rothschilds. Rosicrucians. Jesuits. Skull & Bones. Bilderberg. Club of Rome. Council on Foreign Relations. Trilateral Commission. etc etc etc.

They have hoarded all the gold, and systematically defrauded almost every country on Earth to bankrupt it, and institute a New World Order. They have infiltrated almost every organization and corporation by now. The UN's Agenda 2030 and World Economic Forum seek to enslave us all

• 

• 

They believe in Ritual Occult sacrifice, essentially Satanism, and love the use of symbolism to flaunt it in our faces.
Our current situation with the controlavirus amounts to this:

The end result is an authoritarian dystopia where they control EVERYTHING, our bodies, our thoughts & minds (this is already going on), what we can do, what we can know, whether we're allowed to eat…
In some sick backwards way, they see this as the way forward for humanity:

This is the full roadmap for their evil plan.
Red lines = anything already achieved in some form. (emphasis). The rest by 2030.

If this is the first time you are hearing about this, you are inevitably doubting me or think I'm exaggerating. You have to do your own research, I have. The corruption is so deep, we cant possibly know the full scope of it. All we need to know is it cannot be allowed to continue

• 

• 

The entire mainstream and legacy media is complicit.
You have to be willing to disconnect from their programming. Beyond obvious propaganda, it counts as brainwashing, literal hypnosis through speech patterns and is another occult-like spell to serve their masters. Turn it off.

With the help of the media, they push their agenda through "Problem, Reaction, Solution" tactics. Otherwise known as Hegelian Dialectics (Thesis, Synthesis, Antithesis).
This is also where cultural Marxism (cloaked as woke Liberalism) and Communism play in (or whatever ism suits)

• 

• 

They want us fighting each other, as stupid uneducated sheep, so we don't realize what they've done and come after them. Almost every US President was a member of a secret society and serves to enforce the illusion that we have elected leaders. They have been rigging it for years

Beyond the obvious governments and organizations, and old characters like Soros, Bill Gates seems to have gone rogue to become his own player in this sick evil game. Not even motivated by money anymore, he has a false god complex so he thinks he is helping people
(same pic sorta)

• 

• 

This mural is called "Freedom for Humanity":
depicting Lord Rothschild and Paul Warburg.
The others were John D. Rockefeller, J.P. Morgan, Andrew Carnegie, and, for some reason, the writer and mystic Aleister Crowley.
It was immediately attacked online.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_for_Humanity

The nature of the problem means there is no political or cultural solution to it. The only way forward is individual knowledge, and we have to get there before we are censored out of existence, or worse. The deadly serious nature means genocide could be used against any dissenter

I have reason to believe actual mind control (beyond MKUltra) is Already being used on the public, not just normal social media bots & trolls and online influence operations (psyops). This is currently my most serious line of concern, and it relates to Targeted Individuals & 5G.

• 

• 

Again you may doubt me, but I have proof of psychotronic EMF attacks. This may explain all the public cognitive dissonance. If this is allowed, our minds are gone, free will is lost, end game, we lose!
Its very complicated, Heres a relevant video for now:

I am a tech expert. I know for a fact all our smartphones are compromised. Big-Tech is in bed with the military industrial complex, and serves its globalist deep state masters to subvert the public without being detected.
Consider your phone as a direct line to the enemy. Avoid.

It is unfortunate we let it get this bad. Warnings were not heeded. Consumerism was rampant. Lazyness dominated our culture. Take this time during lockdown to ramp up your understanding of technology, protect yourself, etc. Privacy and safe communication is vital. 🎯👀

• 

• 

Its not all bad. We just have to survive long enough to learn the truth and reach our collective Great Awakening. Pieces are already in motion to triumph over this incredible evil and our job is to educate ourself, since all our institutions have failed us. Learn to meditate/pray

Lets hope this is an important piece of the puzzle. Everything I've learned tells me that we need to keep the faith and have hope that people braver than me can initiate a military takedown. I have taken my oath to the constitution & await another sign from the universe on 1/30.

We are living through an incredible time, the Age of Aquarius, and the cosmos contains secrets that science has kept from us. If we succeed, (and we may already have, since time is non-linear) These are some of the results we can expect to change our lives forever.

• 

• 

We will be transported to a new timeline that will totally transform life on Earth as we know it. This will immediately unlock "forbidden" technology and transition us to Sci-Fi World with teleportation, anti-gravity, free energy, and super advanced healing.
Frequency & Vibration

Originally tweeted by 🇺🇸Abei V🇵🇷⭐️🗣 (@AbeiV) on January 22, 2021.

https://genr8.pw/ril_export.html = (exported from Pocket) https://getpocket.com/

(Since April 2020) – unsorted.

Auto Captions / Subtitles / Transcript (customized & paragraphed)

https://pastebin.com/HWSJRcPc = Debasing The Subtrate / Junk Attention Economy (bit)

[Laughter] [Music]
chris don how are you good good to be here
good to have you here man um
you were just telling me before we went on air
the numbers of the social dilemma and theyre bonkers
so what just say that yeah uh
the social dilemma was seen by a 38 million households
in the first 28 days on netflix which i think is broken records
and if you assume you know a lot of people are seeing it with their family
because parents seeing it with their kids uh
the issues that are on teen mental health
uh so if you assume one out of ten
families saw it with a few family
members we’re in the 40 to 50 million
people range which is just broken
records i think for netflix i think it
was the second most popular documentary
throughout the month of september
or film throughout the month of
september is really well done
documentary but i think it’s one of those documentaries that affirmed a lot of people’s worst suspicions
about the dangers of social media and then on top of that
it sort of alerted them to what they were already
experiencing in their own personal life and like highlighted it
yeah i think that’s right i mean most people were
aware i think it’s a thing everyone’s been feeling that
the feeling you have when you use social
media isn’t that this thing is just a
tool or it’s on my side
it is an environment based on
manipulation as we say in the film
and that’s really what’s changed that you know
i remember you know i’ve been working on
these issues for something like eight or
eight years or something now you please
tell people who didn’t see the documentary
what your background is and what you how
you got into it yeah so i uh
that you know the film goes back as a set of technology insiders
my background was as a design ethicist at google
so i first had a startup company that we sold
to google and i landed there through a talent acquisition
and then um
started work about a year
into being at google made a presentation
that was about how essentially technology was holding
the human collective psyche in its hands
that we were really controlling the world psychology uh
because every single time people look
at their phone they are
basically experiencing thoughts and
scrolling through feeds and believing things about the world this has become the primary
meaning making machine for the world
and that we as google had a moral responsibility to uh
you know hold the collective psyche
in a thoughtful ethical way and not create
this sort of race to the bottom of the brainstem attention economy
that we now have uh
so my background was as a as a kid i was a magician we can get into that i studied at a lab at stanford called or
studied in a class called the stanford persuasive technology class that taught a lot of the engineers
at in silicon valley kind of how the
mind works and the co-founders of instagram were there and uh
then later studied behavioral
economics and how the mind is sort of
influenced i went into cults and started
studying how cults work
and then arrived at google through this
lens of you know technology isn’t really
just this thing that’s in our hands
it’s more like this manipulative
environment that is tapping into our
weaknesses everything from the slot machine rewards to you know the way you get tagged in a
photo and it sort of manipulates your
social validation and approval
these kinds of things when you were at google
did they still have the don’t be evil sign up
i don’t know if there’s actually a
physical sign was there was never a
physical sign i thought there was something
that they actually had i think it was there’s this guy
was it paul not paul what was his last
name he was the inventor one of the
vendors of gmail and they had a meeting
and they came up with this mantra
because they realized the power that
they had and they realized that
there was going to be a conflict of
interest between advertising on the search results
and regular search results and so we
know that they knew that they could have
used that power and they came up with this
mantra i think in that meeting in the
early days to don’t be don’t be evil
there was a time where they took that mantra down
and i remember reading about it online
and and they took it off their page i think
that’s what it was yeah and uh
when i read that i was like that should be big news
like there’s no reason to take that down
why would you take that down
yeah why would you why would you say
well let me give you a little evil
let’s not get crazy it’s a good question
i mean i wonder what logic would have you
remove a statement like that that seems
like a standard state like it’s a great statement
okay here it is google removes don’t be
evil claws from its code of conduct
in 2018 yeah yeah i wonder why
did they have an explanation did it say anything
underneath him don’t be evil has been a
part of the company’s corporate code of
conduct since 2000 when google
was reorganized under a new patent uh
parent company alphabet
in 2015 alphabet assumed a slightly adjusted version
of the do the right thing
do the right thing oh
that’s a spike lee movie BLEEPED
however google retained its original
don’t be evil language until the past several weeks
the phrase has been deeply
incorporated into google’s company culture
so much so that a version of the phrase has served
as the wi-fi password on the shuttles
that google uses to ferry
its employees to its mountain view
headquarters i think i remember that yeah
get on the bus and you type in don’t be
evil i wonder why they decided
well i mean they did change it to do the
right thing i mean we always used to say that
um just to friends not within google but
just you know instead of saying
don’t be evil just say let’s let’s do
some good here right that’s nice
let’s do some good years yeah think
positive think doing good
instead of don’t do bad yeah but the
problem is when you say do good the
question is who’s good
because you live in a morally plural society and there’s
this question of who are you to say
what’s good for people and it’s much
easier to say let’s reduce harms than it
is to say let’s actually do good like this
it says the updated version of google’s
code of conduct still retains one
reference to the company’s unofficial motto
the final line of the document is still and remember
dot dot dot don’t be evil and if you see something
that you think isn’t right speak up
okay well they still have don’t be evil
though so maybe it’s much ado about nothing but uh
having that
kind of power we were just before the
podcast we were watching jack dorsey speak to
members of the senate uh
in regards to
twitter censoring the hunter biden story
and censorship of conservatives but
allowing dictators to spread propaganda
dictators from other countries and
why and what what this is all about one of the things that
uh jack dorsey has been pretty adamant about is that
they really never saw this coming when
they started twitter yeah and they
didn’t think that they were ever going
to be in this position
where they were going to be really the
arbiters of free speech for the world
right which is essentially in some ways
what they are i think it’s important to
to roll back the clock for people
because it’s easy to think
you know that we just sort of landed
here and that they would know that
they’re going to be influencing the
global psychology but i think we should really
reverse engineer for the audience how did these products work the way that they did so like let’s
go back to the beginning days of twitter
i think his first tweet was something like
checking out the buffaloes in golden
gate park in san francisco um
you know jack was fascinated by the taxi
cab dispatch system that you could send
a message and then all the taxis get it
and the idea is could we create a dispatch system so that i post a tweet
and then suddenly all these other people can see it
and the real genius of these things
was that they weren’t just offering this
thing you could do they found ways of keeping people engaged i think this is important for people to
get that they’re not competing for your data
or for uh
you know money they’re
competing to keep people
using the product and so when twitter for example invented this persuasive feature of the number of
followers that you have
if you remember like that was a new
thing at the time right you log in and
you see your profile
here’s the people who you can follow and
then here’s the number of followers you have
that created a reason for you to come
back every day to see how many followers do i have
so that was part of this race to keep
people engaged as we talk about in the
film like these things are competing for
your attention that if you’re not paying for the product you are the product but the thing that
is the product is your predictable
behavior you’re using the product in predictable way
and i remember a conversation i had with
someone at facebook who was a friend of mine
who said in a coffee shop one day people think that
we facebook are competing with something like twitter that
one social network is competing with
another social network but really he
said our biggest competitor is youtube
because they’re not competing for social
networks they’re competing for attention
and youtube is the biggest competitor in the digital space for attention
and that was a real light bulb moment for me
because you you realize that as they’re designing these products they’re finding new clever ways to get
your attention that’s the real thing
that i think is different
in the film the social dilemma rather
than talking about you know censorship
and data and privacy in these themes
it’s really what is the core influence
or impact that the
shape of these products have on how
we’re making meaning of the world when they’re
steering our psychology do you think
that it was inevitable that someone manipulates
the way people use these things to gather more attention
and do you think that any of this could have been avoided
if there was laws against that
if instead of having these algorithms
that specifically target things that you’re interested in
or things that you click on
or things that are going to make you engage more
if they just allow these things to
if someone said listen
you can have these things
you can allow people to communicate with each other
but you can’t manipulate their attention span
yeah i mean i think the
so we’ve always had an attention economy right
and you’re competing for it right now
um and politicians compete for it can
you vote for someone you’ve never paid attention to
never heard about never heard them say
something you know outrageous no um
so there’s always been an attention economy and so it’s hard to say we should
regulate who gets attention or how but it’s
it’s organic in some ways right like
this podcast is an organic
i mean if we’re in competition it’s
organic i just put it out there and if
you watch it you don’t
or or you don’t i don’t you know i don’t
have any say over it and i’m not
manipulating it in any way
sort of so i mean let’s imagine that the
podcast apps were different
and they actually while you’re watching
they had like the hearts and the stars
and the kind of voting up in numbers and
you could like send messages back and forth and
apple podcasts worked in a way that
didn’t just reward
you know the things that you clicked
follow on it actually sort of
promoted the stuff that someone said the most outrageous thing
then you as a podcast creator have an
incentive to say the most outrageous
thing and then you arrive at the top of
the apple podcast or spot or spotify app
and and that’s the thing is that we
actually are competing for attention
it felt like it was neutral and it was relatively neutral
and to progress that story back in time with um
you know twitter competing for attention
let’s look at some other things that
they did so they also added this retweet
this instant resharing feature
right and that made it more addictive
because suddenly we’re all playing the
fame lottery right like i could retweet
your stuff and then you get a bunch of
hits and then you could go
viral and you could get a lot of
attention so then instead of
um the companies competing for attention
now each of us suddenly win the fame
lottery over and over and over again
and we’re we’re getting attention uh
and then um
i had another example i was gonna think
about and i forgot it
what was it um
you can jump if you want um
apple has an interesting way of handling
sort of uh
the way they have their algorithm
for their podcast app is
it’s secret it’s kind of it’s weird but
one of the things that it favors
is it favors new shows and it favors
uh engagement and new subscribers so
comments engagement and new shows
and that’s the same as competing for attention
because engagement must mean people like it and that’s yeah and there’s going to be
a fallacy as we go down that road but go on
well it’s interesting
because you could say if you have a podcast
and your podcast gets like let’s say a hundred thousand downloads a new podcast can come along and it can
get ten thousand downloads and it’ll be
ahead of you in the rankings
and so you could be number three and it
could be number two
and you’re like well how is that number
two and it’s got
ten times less but they don’t do it that
way and their logic
is they don’t want the podcast world to be dominated by you know
new york times the big ones yeah and whatever whatever’s number one and number two and
number three forever we actually just experienced this um
we have a podcast called urine divided
attention and since the film came out
in that first month we went from being
you know in the lower 100 or something
like that until we shot to the top
five i think we were the number one tech
podcast for a while and so we just
experienced this through the fact not
that we had the most listeners but
because the trend was so rapid that we sort of jumped uh
to the top
i think it’s wise that they do that
because eventually it evens out over time you know you see
some people rocking to the top like oh
my god we’re number three
and you’re like hang on there fella just
give it a couple of weeks and then
three weeks later four weeks later now
they’re number 48 and they they get depressed
right well that was really where you
should have been but
the thing that apple does that i
really like in that is it gives
an opportunity for these new shows to be seen
and where they might have gotten just stuck
because these these rankings and the ratings for a lot of these shows
these shows are so consistent and they
have such a following already yeah it’s very difficult
for these new shows to gather attention right and
the problem was that there were some
people that game the system
and there was companies that could
literally like earl skakel
remember earl became the number one podcast and like no one was listening to it earl has money
and he he hired some people to game the system
and he was kind of like open about it
and and laughing about now isn’t he banned from
itunes now or something i think he got banned
because of that
because it was so
obvious he game the system he had like a
thousand downloads and he was number one
i mean the thing is it were apple
podcasts you can think of as like the
federal reserve or the government of the attention economy
because they’re
setting the rules by which
you win right they could have set the
rules as you said to be uh
you know who has the most listeners and
then you just keep rewarding the kings
that already exist versus who is the
most trending there’s actually a story
a friend of mine told me i don’t know if
it’s true although it was a fairly
credible source who said he was a meeting
with steve jobs when they were making
the first podcast app
and that they had uh
made a demo of something where you could see all the
things your friends were listening to so
just like making a news feed like we do
with facebook and twitter right
um and then he said was well why would we do that if something is important enough your
friend will actually just send you a
link and say you should
listen to this like why would we
automatically just promote random things
that your friends are listening to and
again this is kind of how you get back
to social media how is social media so successful
because it’s so it’s much more addictive to see what
your friends are doing in a feed but it
doesn’t reward what’s true or what’s meaningful and this and this is the thing that
people need to get about social media is
it’s it’s really just rewarding the things
that tend to keep people back
addictively the business model is addiction
in this race to the bottom of the brain
stem for attention well it seems like
if we in hindsight find size 20 20 what
what should have been done or what could have
been done had we known
where this would pile out is that they
could have said you can’t do that you
can’t manipulate these algorithms to make sure
that people pay more attention
and manipulate them to ensure that people become deeply addicted to these platforms what
you can do is just let them openly communicate
right but it has to be organic
and then the problem is so if this is
the thing i was going to say about twitter
is when one company does the
call it the engagement feed meaning
showing you the things that the most
people are clicking on
and retweeting trending things like that
let’s imagine there’s two feeds so
there’s the feed
that’s called the reverse chronological
feed meaning showing in order in time
you know joe rogan posted this two hours
ago but that’s you know
after that you have the thing that
people posted an hour and a half ago all the way up to
10 seconds ago that’s the reverse chronological um
they have a mode like that on twitter if
you click the sparkle icon i don’t know if you know this
it’ll show you just in time here’s what
people said you know sorted by recency
but then they have this other feat
called what people click on retweet et
cetera the most the people you follow
and it sorts it by what it thinks you’ll
click on and want the most
which one of those is more successful at
getting your attention the sort of
recency what they posted recently versus
what they know people are clicking on
retweeting on the most certainly what
they know people are clicking on retweeting the
most correct and so once twitter does that
let’s say facebook was sitting there
with the recency feed like just showing
you here’s the people who posted
in this time order sequence they have to also
switch to who is like the most relevant stuff
right the most clicked retweeted the
most so this is part of this race for
attention that once one actor does something like that and they algorithmically you know figure
out what people what’s most popular
the other companies have to follow
because otherwise they won’t get the
attention so it’s the same thing if
you know netflix adds the autoplay 54321
countdown to get people to watch the next
episode that if that works at say
increasing netflix’s watch time by five percent
youtube sits there says we just shrunk
how much time people were watching youtube
because now they’re watching
more netflix so we’re gonna add
54321 autoplay countdown and it becomes
again this game theoretic race of who’s
going to do more now
if you open up tik-tok tik-tok doesn’t even wait
i don’t know if you know if
your kids use tik-tok but when you
open up the app it doesn’t even
wait for you to click on something it
just actually plays the first video the second you open it
which none of the other apps do right
and the point of that is that causes you
to enter into this engagement stream
even faster so this is this again this
race for attention produces
things that are not good for society and
even if you took the whack-a-mole
sticker you took the anti-trust case and you
whack facebook and you got rid of
facebook or you whack google or you whack youtube
you’re just going to have more actors
flooding in doing the same thing and one
other example of this is um
uh the time it takes
to reach let’s say 10 million followers so
if you remember back in the ash wasn’t
ashton kutcher who raised for the first million followers race with cnn right yeah so now if you
think of it the companies are competing for our attention if they find out that each of us
becoming a celebrity and having a
million people we get to reach
if that’s the currency of the thing that
gets us to come back to get more attention then they’re competing at who can give
us that bigger fame lottery hit faster
so let’s say 2009 or 2010 when ashton kutcher did that it took him i don’t know how long it
took months to for him to get
a million i don’t remember it was it was
a little bit though right
um and then tick tock comes along and
says hey we want to give kids
the ability to hit the fame lottery and
make it big hit the jackpot
even faster we want you to go from zero
to a million followers in
10 days right and so they’re competing
to make that shorter and shorter and
shorter and i know about this
because you know speaking from a silicon valley perspective
venture capitalists fund these new social platforms based on how fast they can get to like
100 million users there was this famous line that like i forgot what it was but i think
facebook took like 10 years to get to 100 million users
instagram took you know i don’t know
four years three years or something like that tiktok can get there even faster and so
it’s shortening shortening shortening
and that’s what people are are that’s
what we’re competing for it’s like who
can win the fame lottery faster
but is a world where everyone broadcasts to millions of people
without the responsibilities of publishers journalists etc does that produce an information
environment that’s helped that that’s
that’s healthy and obviously the film
the social dilemma is really about how it makes the worst of us rise to the top
right so our hate our outrage our polarization um
what we disagree about black and
white thinking more conspiracy oriented
views of the world q anon you know
facebook groups things like that
and i can we can definitely go into
there’s a lot of legitimate conspiracy
theories i want to make sure i’m not
categorically dismissing stuff um but that’s really the point is that we have
landed in a world where the things that we are paying attention to
are not necessarily the agenda of topics that we would say
in a reflective world what we would say is most important
so there’s a lot of there’s a lot of conversation about free will
and about letting people choose whatever they choo whatever they enjoy viewing and watching and paying attention to
but when you’re talking about these incredibly potent algorithms and the incredibly potent uh
addictions that people
that the people develop to these these
things and we’re pretending that people
should have the ability to just ignore
it and put it away
right and use your willpower yeah that seems i have another kids
i have a folder on my phone called addict and it’s all all caps and it’s at the end of my
all you have to scroll through all my
other apps to get to it and so if i want
to get to twitter
or instagram the problem is that the app
switcher will put it in the most recent
so once you switch apps and you have
twitter in a recent it’ll be right there
so that’s if i want to go
left and yeah if i want to see that yeah
you can’t do that
yeah it’s um
it’s insanely
addictive and uh
if you can control yourself it’s not that big a deal but how many
people can control themselves well i think the the thing we have to hone in on
is the asymmetry of power
um you know as i say in the film it’s
like we’re bringing this ancient brain
hardware the prefrontal cortex which is
like what you use to do
um goal directed action self-control
willpower holding back you know
marshmallow test don’t do
the don’t get the marshmallow now wait
later for the two marshmallows later
all of that is through our prefrontal
cortex and when you’re sitting there
and you think okay i’m gonna go watch
i’m gonna look at this one thing on facebook
because my friend invited me to
this event or it’s this one post i have to look at and then next thing you know you find
yourself scrolling through the thing for like an hour right and you say man that was on me i
should have had more self-control
but there behind the screen behind that glass slab is like a supercomputer pointed at your brain
that is predicting the perfect thing to show you next and you can feel it like it’s this is really important so like
if i’m facebook and when you flick your finger you think um
when you’re using facebook it’s just
going to show me the next thing that my friend said but it’s not doing that it when you
flick your finger it actually literally
wakes up this sort of super computer avatar voodoo doll version of joe and the voodoo doll of joe is um
you know the more clicks you ever
made on facebook is like adding the little hair to the voodoo doll and the more likes you’ve ever made
adds little clothing to the voodoo doll and the more um
you know watch time on videos you’ve ever had adds little
um you know shoes to the voodoo doll so
the voodoo doll is getting more and more accurate the more things you click on this is in
the film the social dilemma like if you notice like the character you know as he’s using this thing uh
it builds a more and more accurate
model that the ais the three ais behind
the screen are kind of manipulating
and the idea is it can actually predict
and prick the voodoo doll with this
video or that post from your friends
or this other thing and it’ll figure out
the right thing to show you
that it knows will keep you there
because it’s already
seen how that same video or that same
post has kept 200 million other voodoo dolls there
because you just look like another
voodoo doll so here’s an example
and this works the same on all the
platforms if you are were a teen girl
and you opened a dieting video on youtube um
70 of youtube’s watch time comes from
the recommendations on the right-hand side right so the things that are showing recommended videos next and it will uh
show you it’ll show
what did it show that the girls who
watch the teen dieting video
it showed anorexia videos
because those were better
at keeping the teen girls attention not
because it said these are good for them
these are helpful for them it just says these tend to work
at keeping their attention so again
these tend to work if you are already
watching diet videos yeah so if you’re a
13 year old girl and you watch a diet video youtube wakes up it’s voodoo doll
version of that girl and says hey i’ve got like 100 million other voodoo dolls of 13 year old girls right
and they all tend to watch these these
other videos i don’t know i just know
that they have this word thin spo
the inspiration is the name for it to be
inspired for anorexia yeah it’s a real thing um
youtube addressed this problem a
couple years ago but when you let the
machine run blind all it’s doing is
picking stuff that’s engaging
why did they choose to not let the
machine run blind with
one thing like anorexia well so now
we’re getting into the twitter
censorship conversation and the
moderation conversation so the real
this is why i don’t focus on censorship in moderation
because the real issue
is if you blur your eyes and zoom way
out and say how does the whole machine
tend to operate like no matter what i
start with what is it going to recommend next so um
you know if you started with
um you know a world war ii video youtube would recommend a bunch of holocaust denial videos right
if you started teen girls with a dieting video it would recommend these anorexia videos
uh in facebook’s case if you joined
there’s so many different examples here
because facebook recommends groups to people based on what it thinks is most engaging
for you so if you were a new mom
you had renee diresta my friend on this
podcast we’ve done a bunch of work
together and she has this great example of as a new mom
she joined one facebook group for
mothers who do do it yourself baby food
like organic baby food
and then facebook has this sidebar it
says here’s some other groups you might recommend you might want to join and what do you
think was the most engaging of those
because facebook again is picking on
which group if i got you to join it
would cause you to spend the most
time here right so force some
do-it-yourself baby food groups which group do you think
it selected probably something about
vaccines exactly so anti-vaccines for moms yeah okay so then if you join that group now
it does the same run the process again
so then so now look at facebook so it
says hey i’ve got these voodoo dolls
i’ve got like 100 million voodoo dolls
and they’re all they just join this
anti-vaccine moms group and then what do
they tend to engage with for very long time if i get them to join these other groups
which of those other groups would show up i don’t know chemtrails oh the pizzagate
flat earth flat earth absolutely yep and
youtube recommended so i’m
interchangeably going from youtube to facebook
because it’s the same dynamic
they’re competing for attention and
youtube recommended flat earth conspiracy theories hundreds of millions of times and so
when you when you’re a parent during covid and you sit your kids in front of youtube
because you’re like i’m
i’ve got a this is the digital pacifier
got to let them do their thing i got to do work right and then you come back to the
dinner table and your kid says you know
the holocaust didn’t happen and the earth is flat and people are wondering why it’s
because of this
and now to your point about this sort of moderation thing we can take the whack-a-mole stick after
the public yells and renee and i you
know make a bunch of noise or something
in a large community by the way of
people making noise about this
and they’ll say okay shoot you’re right
flat earth we got to deal with that and
so they’ll tweak the algorithm and then
people make a bunch of noise about the inspiration videos for uh
anorexia for kids and they’ll deal with that problem but then they start doing it based
reactively but again if you zoom out
it’s just still recommending stuff
that’s kind of from the crazy town
section is the problem the recommendation
because i i don’t mind
that people have ridiculous ideas about hollow earth
because i think it’s humorous but i’m also a 53 year old man right
right i’m not i’m not a 12 year old boy with a limited education that is like
oh my god the government’s lying to us there’s lizard people that live under the earth
right but if that’s the real argument
about these conspiracy theories is that
they can influence young people or the easily impressionable or or
people that maybe don’t have a sophisticated sense of vetting out BLEEPED right well and the
algorithms aren’t making a distinction between who is just laughing at it right and who
is deeply vulnerable to it and generally it’s just
it just says who’s vulnerable to it
another example the way i think about
this is if you’re driving down the highway and and you know there’s facebook and
google trying to figure out like what
should i give you based on what tends to keep your attention if you look at a car crash and everybody
driving the highway they look at the car crash according to facebook and google’s like
the whole world wants car crashes we just feed them car crashes after car crashes
after car crashes and what the algorithms do as guillaume chaslow in the film says who’s the youtube whistleblower from the youtube
recommendation system is they find the
perfect little rabbit hole for you that
it knows will keep you there for five hours and the conspiracy theory like dark corners of youtube were the dark corners that tends to keep
people there for five hours
and so you have to realize that we’re
now something like 10 years in
to this vast psychology experiment where it’s been
you know in every language in hundreds
of countries right and ever in hundreds of languages it’s been steering people towards the
crazy town when i say crazytown i think of you know imagine there’s a spectrum on
youtube and there’s on one side you have like the calm walter cronkite carl sagan you know slow you know kind of boring but like
educational material or something
and the other side of the spectrum you
have you know the craziest stuff you can find um
crazy town no matter where you start
you could start in walter cronkite or
you could start in crazytown
but if i’m youtube and i want you to
watch more am i going to steer you
towards the calm stuff or am i going to
steer you more towards crazy town
crazy dumb always more towards crazy
town so then you imagine just tilting
the floor of humanity
just by like three degrees right and then you just step back and you let society run its
course as jaren lanier says in the film
if you just tilt society by one degree two degrees that’s the whole world that’s that’s
what everyone is thinking and believing
and so if you look at the at the degree to which people are deep into rabbit hole conspiracy
thinking right now and again i want to acknowledge cointelpro operation mockingbird like there’s a lot
of real stuff right so
i’m not categorically dismissing it but
we’re asking what is the
basis upon which we’re believing the
things we are about the world
and increasingly that’s that’s based on
technology and we can get into
you know what’s going on in portland
well the only way i know that is i’m
looking at my social media feed and
according to that it looks like the
entire city is on fire and it’s a war zone but if you i called a friend there the
other day and he said it’s a beautiful
day there’s there’s actually no violence
anywhere near where i am it’s just like
these two blocks or something like that
and and this is the thing is warping our view of reality and and i think that’s what really for
me the social dilemmas was really trying
to accomplish as a film
and you know the director jeff werlowski
was trying to accomplish is
is how did this society get go crazy
everywhere all at once
you know seemingly you know this didn’t
happen by accident happened by design of this business model when did the business model get
implemented like when did they start
using these algorithms to recommend things
because initially
youtube was just a series of videos and
it didn’t have that
recommended correct section when was
that you know it’s a good question i mean um
you know they originally youtube was just post a video and you can get people to
you know go to that url and send it around uh
they needed to figure out once the
competition for attention got more intense they needed to figure out how am i gonna
keep you there and so recommending those
videos on the right hand side i think
that was there pretty early
if i remember actually
because that’s
that was sort of the innovation is like
keeping people within this youtube wormhole and once people were in the youtube
wormhole constantly seeing videos
that was what they could they could
offer the promise to a new video
uploader hey if you post it here you’re
going to get way more views than if you posted on vimeo right and that’s that’s the thing if i
open up tik tok right now on my phone do
you have tic tac on your phone
um well i’m not supposed to obviously
but more for research purposes
do you know how to take talk at all no
okay my 12 year old is obsessed oh really oh yeah she can’t even sit around if
she’s standing still for
five minutes she just starts like
she starts tik-toking and that’s the
thing i mean 2012 2012 oh so the mayans were right
right 2012 the platform announced an update to the discovery system uh
designed to identify the videos people actually want
to watch by prioritizing videos that hold attention throughout as well as increasing the amount of time
a user spends on the platform overall utoh youtube could assure advertisers that it
was providing a valuable
high quality experience for people yeah so um
that that’s beginning of the end yeah
so 2012 on youtube’s timeline i mean um
you know the twitter and facebook world i think
introduces the retweet and reshare
buttons in the 2009 to 2010 kind of time period so you end up with this world where the
things that we’re most paying attention to are based on algorithms choosing for us and so the sort of deeper argument that’s in
the film that i’m not sure everyone
picks up on is these technology systems
have taken control of human choice
they’ve taken control of humanity
because they’re controlling the information that all of us are getting right
think about every election like
um i think of facebook as kind of a
voting machine but it’s a
sort of indirect voting machine
because it controls the information for four
years that your entire society is getting and then everyone votes based on that
information now you could say well hold on radio and television were there and were partisan before that but actually tv um
radio and tv are often getting their news stories from twitter and twitter is recommending things based on these
algorithms so when you control the
information that an entire population is
getting you’re controlling
their choices i mean literally in
military theory if i want to screw up
your military i want to control the
information that it’s getting i want to confuse the enemy and that information funnel is
the very thing that’s been corrupted and
it’s like the flint water supply for our minds i was talking to a friend yesterday and
she was saying that there were articles that uh
she was laughing that there’s articles that are written
about negative tweets that random people make about a celebrity doing this or that
and she was like and she was quoting this article she’s like
look how crazy this is this is a whole article that’s written about someone who decided
to say something negative about some
something some celebrity had done and
then it becomes this huge art and then
the tweets are prominently featured
right and then the response to those i
mean like like really
like arbitrary like weird
because it’s a
values-blind system that just cares
about what will get attention
exactly and that’s what the article was
it was just an attention grab
it’s interesting
because um
prince harry and megan have become very interested in these issues
and are actually working on these issues and um
getting to know them just a little bit are they really
yeah well they’re
because it affects them personally
well it’s actually interesting i mean i don’t want to speak for them but um
i think megan has been the target
of the most vitriol hate oriented stuff
on the planet right from
just the amount of sort of criticism
that they that they get really and scrutiny yeah i mean she’s just like news feeds filled
with hate about just what she looks like
what she says just constantly
boy i’m out of the loop i’ve never seen anything
she’s pretty
what do they think she looks like
i honestly i don’t follow it myself
because i don’t fall into these
attention traps i try not to but
people she just faces the worst victory
i mean this is the thing with teen bullying right so i think they work on these issues
because teenagers are now getting a
micro version of this thing where each
of us are scrutinized
you know and i think that’s what’s not i
mean think about what celebrity status
does and how it screws up humans in
general right like take an average celebrity like it warps your mind it warps your psychology
and you get scrutiny right
when you suddenly are followed each
person gets thousands or project forward
in the future a few years
each of us have you know tens of
thousands to hundreds of thousands of
people that are following what we say
that’s a lot of feedback and you know as
jonathan heights says in the film and i
know you’ve had him here yeah
you know it’s made kids much more cautious and and less risk-taking and um
and more bullied overall and um
there’s just huge problems in mental
health around this yeah it’s really bad for young girls right
um especially for celebrities and i’ve
had quite a few celebrities in here and
we’ve discussed it i just tell them that
you can’t read that stuff just don’t read it yeah
like there’s no good in it like i had a friend um
she did a show she’s a comedian she did
a show and she was talking about this one negative comment that was inaccurate you know that said
she only did a half an hour and her show
sucked she’s like BLEEPED her that’s not like i go why are you reading that she’s like
because it’s mostly positive i go but
how come you’re not talking about most of it then we’re talking about this one person yeah
it’s one negative person we’re both
laughing about it like she’s
she’s healthy you know she’s not she’s
not completely BLEEPED up by it but
this one person got into her head i’m
like i’m telling you it’s not the juice
is not worth the squeeze
but don’t read those things but this is
this is exactly right and this is based
on how our minds work i mean our minds
literally have something called
negativity bias so if you have a hundred comments and 99 are positive and one is negative just where does the average human’s mind go
right they go to the negative
yeah and it also goes to the negative
even when you shut down the screen your
mind is sitting there
looping on that negative comment and why
because evolutionarily it’s really important that we look at
social approval negative social approval
because our reputation is at stake in the tribe yes so it
matters yes but it’s never been
easier now for not just that that one
comment to sort of gain more airtime but
then for that to build a hate mob and
then to see the interconnected clicks
and i can go in and see
10 other people that responded to that that are now yes
and so especially when you have
teenagers that are exposed to this and
you can keep going down the tree and see
all of the hate fest on you this is the
psychological environment that is the default way that kids are growing up now yeah i
actually faced this recently with the film itself
because actually the film has gotten just crazy positive acclaim for the most part
and there’s just a few you know negative comments
and for myself even right becomes a conjunction
but i was glued to a few negative
comments and i and then you could click
and you would see
the other people that you know who positively like or respond to those comments like why did
that person say that negative thing i
thought we were friends that whole kind of psychology and we’re all vulnerable to
it unless you learn as
you said to tell your celebrity friends
just don’t pay attention even mild stuff
i see people fixate on even mild
disagreement or mild criticism people fixate on and it’s um
it’s it’s also a problem
because you realize that someone’s
saying this and you’re not there and you
can’t defend yourself so you have this
feeling of helplessness like hey that’s not true i didn’t and then you you don’t get it out of your system
you never you never get to express it
and people can share that
false negative stuff i mean not all
negative stuff is false but you can
assert things and build on the hate fest right and start going crazy and saying this person’s a
white supremacist or this person’s even worse and that’ll spread to thousands and
thousands of people and next thing you
know you check into your feed again at you know 8 p.m that night and you your whole
reputation’s been destroyed yes and you
didn’t even know what happened to you
well and this happened to teenagers too
i mean they’re anxious like i’ll post
you know teenager opposed to photo
uh their high school they make a dumb
comment without thinking about it
and then next thing they know you know
at the end of the day the parents are all calling
because like 300 parents saw it
and are calling up the parent of that kid
and it it’s you know we talk to teachers a lot
in our work at the center for humane technology and they um
will say that on monday morning this
is before kobe but on monday morning
they spend the first like
hour of class having to clear all the
drama that happened on social media from the weekend for the kids jesus and
again like this and these kids are in what age group this is like eighth ninth ninth tenth
grade that kind of thing
and the other problem with these
kids is there’s not like uh
a long history of people growing up
through this kind of influence and
successfully navigating it yeah
these are the these are the pioneers
yeah and they won’t know anything
different which is why you know we talk
about in the film like
this they’re growing up in this environment and you know one of the simplest
principles of ethics um
uh is the ethics of symmetry doing onto
others as you would do to yourself and
as we say at the end of the film like
one of the easiest ways you know that
there’s a problem here is that
many of the executives at the social media tech companies don’t let their own kids use social
media right they literally say at the
end of the film like it’s
we have a rule about it we’re religious
about it we don’t do it the ceo of lunchable’s foods
didn’t let his own kids eat lunchables
that’s when you know if you talk to a
doctor or a lawyer a doctor and you say
you know would you get this surgery for
your own kids oh no i would never do
that like would you trust that doctor
right and it’s the same thing for a
lawyer so this is the relationship where
we have a relationship of asymmetry and
technology is influencing all of us
and we need a system by which you know
when i was growing up
uh you know i grew up on the macintosh
and technology and i was
creatively doing programming projects
and whatever else the people who built
the technology i was using would have their own kits use the things that i was using
because they were creative and they were about tools and empowerment
and that’s what’s changed we don’t have that anymore
because the business model took over and so instead of having just tools
sitting there like hammers waiting to be used to build you know creative projects or
programming to invent things or paint brushes or whatever we now have a manipulation based
technology environment where everything you use has this
incentive to not only addict you but to
have you play the fame lottery get social feedback
because those are all the things that keep people’s attention
isn’t this also a problem with these information technologies being
attached to corporations that have this philosophy of unlimited growth
yes so they’re they’re no matter how much they make i i applaud apple
because i think they’re the only company that takes steps to protect privacy to uh
block advertisements to make sure that
at least like when you when you use
their maps application they’re not
saving your data and sending it to everybody and it’s one of the reasons why apple maps
is really not as good
as google maps right but i use it
and that’s one of the reasons why i use
it and when apple came out recently
and there was um
they were doing something to uh
to to block your uh
information being uh
sent to other places and they i forget what was the exact thing that it was in the new ios they
released a thing that blocks the tracking identifiers that’s right and it’s not actually out
yet it’s going to be out in january or
february i think someone told me and
what that’s due that’s a good example of
they’re putting a tax on the advertising industry
because just by saying you can’t track people individually
that you know takes down the value of an advertisement by like 30 or something
here it is pops up and you when i do safari
i get this whole privacy report thing
right that says it’s like in the last seven days it’s
prevented 125 trackers from profiling me
right yeah and you can opt out of that
if you’d like if you’re like no BLEEPED that track me yeah yeah you can do that you can let
them send your data but
that that seems to me a much more ethical approach to be able to decide whether or not
these companies get your information
i mean those things are great um
the challenge is imagine you get the privacy
equation perfectly right look at this
apple working on its own search engine as google ties could be cut soon
i started using duckduckgo
yep for that very reason
just because it’s they don’t do anything with it
you know they give you the information
but they don’t they don’t take your data
and and do anything with it the the
challenge is let’s say we get all the privacy stuff perfectly perfectly right and data
production and data controls and all that stuff in a
system that’s still based on attention
and grabbing attention and harvesting and strip mining our brains uh
you still get maximum polarization addiction mental health problems isolation teen depression and suicide um
polarization breakdown of truth right right so that’s
we really focus in our work uh
on those topics
because that’s the direct
influence of the business model on
warping society like we need to name
this mind warp we think of it like the
climate change of culture
that you know we they seem like they seem like different disconnected topics much like with
climate change you’d say like okay we’ve
got species loss in the amazon we’ve got
we’re losing insects
we’ve got melting glaciers
we’ve got ocean acidification
we’ve got the coral reefs you know getting dying
these can feel like disconnected things
until you have a unified model
of how emissions change all those different phenomena right
in the social fabric
we have shortening of attention spans
we have more outrage driven news media
we have more polarization
um we have more breakdown of truth we
have more conspiracy-minded thinking
these seem like separate events uh
and separate phenomena but they’re actually
all part of this attention extraction paradigm that the company’s growth as you said
depends on extracting more of our
attention which means more polarization more extreme material more conspiracy thinking
and shortening attention spans
because we we also say like you know if we want
to double the size of the attention economy i want your attention joe to be split
into two separate streams
like i want you watching the tv uh
the tablet and the phone at the same time
because now i’ve tripled the size of the
amount of extractable attention that i
can get for advertisers
which means that by fracking for
attention and splitting you into
more junk you know attention that’s like thinner we can sell that as if it’s real
attention like the financial crisis
where you’re selling
thinner and thinner financial assets as
if it’s real but it’s really just a junk asset
oh wow and that’s kind of where we are
now where it’s sort of the junk attention economy
because we we’re we can shorten
attention spans and we’re debasing the substrate
of that makes up our society
because everything in a democracy depends on individual
sense making and meaningful choice
meaningful free will meaningful
independent views but if that’s all
basically sold to the highest bidder
that debases the soil
from which independent views grow
because all of us are jacked into this
sort of matrix of social media manipulation
that’s that’s ruining and degrading our
democracy and that’s really
there’s many other things that are
ruining integrating our democracy but
that’s that’s the sort of invisible force that’s upstream
that affects every other thing downstream
because if we can’t agree on
what’s true for example
you can’t solve any problem i think
that’s what you talked about in your
10-minute thing on the social dilemma i
think i saw on youtube yeah um
your organization highlights all these issues
in you know in an amazing way and it’s very important
it’s hard right so i just want to say
that this is as a complex a problem
as climate change um
in the sense that
you need to change the business model i
think of it like we’re on the fossil fuel economy
and we have to switch to some kind of beyond that thing right
because so long as the business models of these companies depend on extracting attention can you expect
them to do something different like
you can’t but how could you is it i mean
there’s so much money involved and now
they’ve accumulated so much wealth that they have an amazing amount of influence
yeah you know and and the asymmetric influence can buy
lobbyists can influence congress and
prevent things from happening so this is
why it’s kind of the last missiles
that’s right but you know i think we’re
seeing signs of real change we have the
anti-trust case that was just filed
against google in congress we’re seeing more hearings what was the basis of that case you know
to be honest i was actually in the middle of uh
the social dilemma launch
when i think that happened and our my home burned down in the recent fires in santa rosa
so i actually missed that happening
it’s hard to hear that
yeah sorry that was a big thing to drop
but yeah no it’s it’s awful there’s so much that’s been happening in the last six years
i’ve been uh
i was evacuated three times where i lived in california
oh really yeah
so we got real close to our house
justice departments who’s monopolist google for violating antitrust laws
department files complain against google to restore competition and search
and search advertising markets okay
so it’s all about search yeah this is right
this was a case that’s about google using its dominant position to privilege
its own search engine
um in its own products and beyond
which is similar to sort of microsoft
bundling in the internet explorer browser but i you know this is all good progress but
really it misses the kind of fundamental
harm of like these things are warping
our society they’re warping how our
minds are working and there’s no
you know congressional action against that
because it’s a really hard problem to solve i think the reason the film for me
is so important is that
if i look at the growth rate of how fast uh
facebook has been recommending people
into conspiracy groups and
um kind of polarizing us into separate
echo chambers which we should really
break down i think
as well for people like exactly the
mechanics of how that happens
but if you look at the growth rate of
all those harms compared to
you know how fast has congress passed
anything to deal with it like basically not at all they seem a little bit unsophisticated
in that regard like big big
understatement yeah yeah they are trying to be charitable i i want to be charitable too
and i want to make sure i call out and
there’s senator mark warner blumenthal um uh
several other senators we’ve
talked to have been
really on top of these issues and led i
think senator warner’s white paper
um on how to regulate the tech platforms
is one of the best it’s from two years
ago in 2018
and rafi martina his staffer is an
amazing human being has worked very hard on these issues so there are some good folks but when
you look at the broad
like the hearing yesterday it’s mostly
grandstanding to politicize the issue right
because you you turn it into on
the right um hey you’re censoring conservatives and on
the left it’s hey you’re not taking down enough misinformation and dealing with the hate
speech and all these kinds of things right and they’re not actually dealing with
how would we solve this problem they’re
just trying to make a political point
to win over their base now the facebook
recently banned the q and on pages
which i thought was kind of fascinating
because i’m like
well this is a weird sort of slippery
slope isn’t it like
if you decide that you i mean it’s it
almost seemed to me like well we’ll
throw them a bone we’ll get rid of q on
because it’s so preposterous let’s
just get rid of that
what else like if you keep going down
that rabbit hole where do you draw the line like
where are you allowed to have jfk conspiracy theories are you allowed to have flat earth are
you allowed i mean i guess flat earth is not dangerous is that where they make the distinction
so i think their policy is evolving in the direction of when things are causing offline harm when online content is known to precede
offline harm that’s when the platform
that’s the standard by which platforms are acting what um
what offline harm has been
caused by the q and on stuff do you know
um there’s several incidents we
interviewed a guy on our podcast about it um
there’s some armed gunpoint type thing i
can’t remember um uh
and there’s there’s things that
are priming people to be violent
you know um
uh these are i just wanna
say these are really tricky topics right
i think what i wanna
make sure we get to though is that there
are many people manipulating the group
think that can happen in these echo chambers
because once you’re in one of
these things like i studied cults
earlier in my career
and the power of cults is like they’re a
vertically integrated persuasion stack
because they control your social relationships they control
who you’re hearing from and who you’re not hearing from they give you meaning purpose and belonging they um
they have a custom language they have
an internal way of referring to things
and social media allows you to create
this sort of decentralized cult
factory where it’s easier to
grab people into an echo chamber where
they only hear from other people’s views
and facebook i think even just recently
announced that they’re going to be
promoting more of the facebook group content into feeds which means that they’re
actually going to make it easier for
that kind of manipulation to happen
but did they make the distinction
between group content and
conspiracy groups like how do you how do you when when does group content
when does it cross a line i don’t know i mean the policy teams that work on this are
coming up with their own standards so
i’m not familiar with it if you think about you know think about how hard it is to
come up with a law at the federal level
that all states will agree to then you imagine facebook trying to come up with a policy
that will be universal to
all the countries that are running
facebook right well then you imagine how
you take a company that never thought
they were going to be in the position
to do that correct and then within a
decade they become the most prominent
source of news and information on the planet earth correct and now they have to regulate it
and you know i actually believe
zuckerberg when he says
i don’t want to make these decisions i
shouldn’t be in this role where my beliefs decide the whole world’s views right he
genuinely believes that yeah
um and and to be certain of that but the
problem is he created a situation where he is now in that position i mean he got there
very quickly and they did it
aggressively when they went into
countries like myanmar ethiopia
uh all throughout the african continent
where they gave do you know about free basics no so this is the program that i think
has gotten something like 700 million
accounts onto facebook where they do a
deal with like a telecommunications
provider like at their version of 18t
in myanmar or something so when you get your smartphone facebook’s built-in facebook’s built-in
i do know about that and there’s a
uh asymmetry of uh
access where it’s
free to access facebook
but it costs money to do the other
things so for the data plan so
you get a free facebook account facebook
is the internet basically
because it’s the free thing you can do
on your phone and
then there’s we know that there’s fake
information that’s being spread
so the data doesn’t apply to facebook
use yeah i think like the cost
you know how we pay for data here like i
think you don’t pay for facebook but you do pay for all the other things which creates an
asymmetry where of course you’re going
to use facebook for most things
right so you facebook messenger yeah and
what’s that yeah yeah what’s up
i don’t know exactly with video
because different
little faces has video calls as well in
general they do yeah i just don’t know
how that works in the developing world
but there’s a joke within facebook i
mean this has caused genocides right so
in myanmar which is in the film
um the rohingya muslim minority group many rohingya were persecuted and murdered
because of fake information
spread by the government on facebook
using their asymmetric knowledge with
fake accounts i mean even just a couple
weeks ago facebook took down
a network of i think several hundred
thousand fake accounts in myanmar
and they didn’t even have at the time
more than something like four or five
people in their extended facebook
network who even spoke the language
of that country oh god so when you
realize that this is like
the i think of like the iraq war colin powell pottery barn rule where like you know if
you go in and you break it then you are
responsible for fixing it
this is facebook actively doing deals to
go into ethiopia to go into myanmar to
go into the philippines or whatever and providing these solutions and then it breaks the society
and they’re now in a position where they
have to fix it there’s actually a joke within facebook that if you want to know which countries will
be quote unquote at risk
in two years from now look at which ones
have facebook free basics
jesus and it’s terrifying that they do
that and they don’t have very many
people that even speak the language so
there’s no way they’re gonna be able to
filter it that’s right and so now if you
take it back i know we were talking
outside about the congressional hearing
and jack dorsey and the questions from the senator about are you taking down the content from the
ayatollahs or from the chinese
xinjiang province about the uyghurs
uh you know when there’s sort of speech
that leads to offline violence in these other countries the issue
is that these platforms are managing the information commons for countries they don’t even
speak the language of
right and if you think the conspiracy
theory sort of dark
corners crazy town of the english internet are bad and we’ve we’ve already taken out like
hundreds of whack-a-mole sticks and
they’ve hired hundreds of policy people
and hundreds of engineers to deal with
that problem you go to a country like ethiopia where um
there’s something like 90 major
there’s 90 something dialects i think in the country and six major languages where one of them
is the dominant facebook sort of
language and then the others get persecuted
because they actually don’t have um
uh they don’t have a voice on the
platform this is really important that um
the people in myanmar
who got persecuted and murdered
didn’t have to be on facebook
for the fake information spread about them
to impact them for people to go after them
right so this is the whole
i can assert something about this minority group
that minority group isn’t on facebook
but if it manipulates the dominant culture to go
we have to go kill them
then they can go do it and the same thing has happened um
you know in india uh
where there’s videos uploaded about
hey those muslims i think they’re called flesh killings
where they’ll say that these muslims
killed this cow and hindu um
is it hinduism the cows are sacred um the uh
to get that right anyway
i believe you did yeah um the uh
they will post those they’ll go viral on
whatsapp and say we have to go lynch those uh muslims
because they killed our sacred the sacred cows
and they went from something like five
of those happening per year to now
hundreds of those happening per year
because of fake news being spread
again on facebook facebook about them on whatsapp about them and again they don’t have to be on the
platform for this to happen to them
right so this is critical that you know
imagine you and i are all let’s imagine
all of your listeners
you know i don’t even know how many you
have like tens of millions right and we
all listen to this conversation we say
we don’t want to even use facebook and twitter or youtube
we all still if you live in the us still
live in a country that everyone else will vote based on everything
that they’re seeing on these platforms
if you zoom out to the global context all of us don’t
we don’t use facebook in brazil but if brazil which uh
was heavily the last election was skewed uh
by facebook and whatsapp where something
like 87 percent of people
saw at least one of the major fake news
stories about bolsonaro and he got
elected and you have people in brazil
chanting facebook facebook when he wins
he wins and then he sets a new policy to
wipe out the amazon
all of us don’t have to be on facebook
to be affected by a leader that wipes
out the amazon and accelerates climate change timelines
because of those interconnected effects
so i you know we at the center for
immune technology are looking at this
from a global perspective
where it’s not just the us election
facebook manages something like 80 elections per year and if you think that they’re doing all
the monitoring that they are for you
know english-speaking american election most privileged society
now look at the hundreds of other countries that they’re operating in do
you think that they’re devoting
the same resources to to the other countries this is so crazy it’s like
[INTERRUPTION]
is that you jamie that’s a weird noise
you hear like a squeaky
i heard it too
yeah maybe it’s me i don’t think it is
just might be feedback
there it is
it might be me breathing
i don’t know do you have a you have asthma
i i think i had an allergy coming oh yeah
i was like sorry
[/INTERRUPTION]
um what’s terrifying is
that we’re talking about from 2012 to 2020 um
youtube implementing this program and then what
is the even the birth of facebook
what is that like 2002 or three like 2004.
this is such a short timeline and having these massive worldwide implications from the use of these things
when you look at the future do you look at this like a runaway train that’s headed towards a cliff
yeah i mean i think right now this thing is a frankenstein that it’s not like even if facebook is
aware of all these problems
they don’t have the staff unless they
hired like hundreds of you know tens
hundreds of thousands of people definitely minimum to try to address all these problems but
the paradox we’re in
is that the very premise of these
services is to rely on automation
like it used to be we had
editors and journalists or at least
editors or you know people edited even
when on television saying what is
credible what is true like you know you sat here with you know alex jones even yesterday and
you’re trying to check him on everything
he’s saying right you’re researching and trying to look that stuff up
you’re trying to be doing some more responsible communication
the premise of these systems is that you don’t do that
like the reason venture capitalists find social media so um uh
profitable and such a good investment is
because we generate the content for free
we are the useful idiots right
instead of paying a journalist
70 000 a year to write something credible we can each be convinced to share our
political views and we’ll do it knowingly for free actually we don’t really know the word
the useful idiots that’s the kind of the point and then instead of paying an editor a hundred
thousand dollars a year to figure out
which of those things is true that we
want to promote and give
exponential reach to you have an
algorithm says hey what do people click on the most what people like the most and then you
realize the quality of the signals that are going into the information environment that
we’re all sharing
is a totally different process we went
from a high quality gated process that cost a lot of money
to this um
really crappy process that costs no money which makes the company so profitable
and then we fight back for territory for for values
when we raise our hands and say hey
there’s a thinspiration video problem
for teenagers and anorexia
hey there’s a mass conspiracy sort of
echo chamber problem over here
hey there’s um
you know flat earth sort of issues and again these get into tricky topics
because we want to
you know i i know we both believe in
free speech and we have this
feeling that um
the solution to bad
speech is better you know more speech
that counters the things that are said
but in a finite attention economy we
don’t have
the capacity for everyone who gets bad speech to just have a counter response in fact what
happens right now is that that bad
speech rabbit holes into
not only called worse and worse speech
but more extreme versions of that view that confirms it
because once facebook knows that that
flat earth rabbit hole is good for you
at getting your attention back
it wants to give you just more and more
of that it doesn’t want to say here’s 20
people who disagree with that thing
right right so i think if you were to imagine a different system we would ask who are
the thinkers that are most
open-minded and synthesis-oriented where
they can actually steal man the other side actually they can do you know for this
speech here is the opposite counter argument they can show that they understand that
and imagine those people get lifted up
but notice that none of those people
that you and i know i mean we’re both
friends with eric weinstein
and you know i think he’s one of these
guys who’s really good at sort of offering the steel manning here’s the other side
of this here’s the other side of that
but the people who generally do that
aren’t the ones who get the tens of
millions of followers on these
surfaces it’s the black and white
extreme outrage oriented thinkers and and speakers that get rewarded in this detention
economy and so if you look at how if i
zoom way out and say how is the entire
system behaving just like if i zoom out
and say climate you know the climate
system like how is the entire
overall system behaving it’s not
producing the kind of information environment the thing that troubles me the most that
i clearly see you’re thinking and i agree with you like i don’t see any holes in what
you’re saying like i don’t know how this
plays out but it doesn’t look good
and i don’t see a solution
it’s like if there are a thousand bison
running full steam towards a cliff and
they don’t realize the cliff is there i
don’t see how you pull them back
so i think of it like we’re trapped in a body and um
that’s eating itself so like it’s
kind of a cannibalism economy
because our economic growth right now with these
tech companies is based on eating our
own organs so we’re eating our own
mental health organs we’re eating the
health of our children we’re eating
sorry for being so gnarly about it but
it’s it’s a cannibalistic system
in a system that’s hurting itself or
eating itself or punching itself
if one of the neurons wakes up in the
body it’s not enough to change that it’s
going to keep punching itself but if
enough of the neurons wake up and say
this is stupid why would we build our system this way and the reason i’m so excited about the
film is that if you have 40 to 50 million people who now recognize that we’re
living in this sort of cannibalist system in which the economic incentive is to debase the
life support systems of your democracy
we can all wake up and say that’s stupid
let’s do something differently let’s actually change the system let’s use different platforms
let’s fund different platforms let’s regulate and tame the existing frankensteins
and i don’t mean regulating speech i mean really thoughtfully
how do we change the incentives so it doesn’t go to the same race to the
bottom and we have to all recognize that
we’re now 10 years into this hypnosis
experiment of warping of the mind
and like you know friends with some
hypnotists like how do we snap our
fingers and get people to say
that that artifact there’s an inflated
level of polarization and hatred right now that especially going into this election i think we all
need to be much more cautious about
what’s running in our brains right now
yeah i don’t think most people are generally aware of what’s causing this polarization i
think they think it’s the climate of society
because the president and
because of uh
black lives matter and the the
george floyd protests and all this jazz
but i don’t think they understand that
that’s exacerbated
in a fantastic way by social media and
the last 10 years of our addictions to
social media and these echo chambers
that we all exist in
yeah so i want to make sure that we’re
both clear and i know
you agree with this that um
these things were already in society to
some degree right so we want to make
sure we’re not
saying social media is blamed for all of
it absolutely not no no
gasoline is gasoline right exactly it’s
it’s lighter fluid for sparks of polarization it’s lighter fluid for sparks of you
know more paranoid which is ironically
what everybody it was the opposite of
everybody what everybody hoped the
internet was going to be
right everybody hoped the internet was
going to be this bottomless resource of
information where everyone was going to
be educated in a way they had never
experienced before in the history of the
human race where you’d have access to
all the answers to all your questions
you you know eric weinstein
describes as the library of alexandria in your pocket yeah but no well and i want to be clear
so that i’m not against technology or
giving people access in fact i think a
world where everyone had a smartphone
and a google search box and wikipedia
and like a search oriented of youtube so
you can look up
health issues or how to do it yourself fix anything sure it would be awesome that would be
great i would love that just want to be really clear
because this is not an
anti-technology conversation
it’s about again this business model
that depends on recommending stuff to people which just to be clear on the polarization front um
it social media is more profitable when
it gives you your own truman show that
affirms your view of reality every time
you flick your finger right
like it that’s going to be more
profitable than every time you flick
your finger i actually show you here’s a
more complex nuanced picture that disagrees with that here’s a different way to see it that
won’t be nearly as successful and the
best way for people to test this
we actually recommend even after seeing
the film to do this is
um open up facebook on two phones especially like you know two partners or people who have
the same friends so you have the same friends on facebook you would think if you scroll your feeds
you’d see the same thing you’re the same
people you’re following
so why wouldn’t you see the same thing
but if you swap phones and you actually
scroll through their feed for 10 minutes
and you scroll through mine for 10
minutes you’ll find
that you’ll see completely different information and it won’t you’ll also notice that it
won’t feel very compelling like if you asked yourself my friend emily just did this with with
her husband after seeing the film
and she literally has the same friends
as her husband and she scrolled through
the feed she’s like this isn’t interesting i wouldn’t come back to this right and
so we have to again realize how subtle and and yeah just how subtle this has been i
wonder what would happen if i scrolled through my feed
because i literally
don’t use facebook
i don’t use it at all i only use
instagram use instagram i i stopped using twitter
because it’s like a bunch
of mental patients throwing BLEEPED at each other um
and i uh
very rarely use it i should say occasionally i’ll check some things to
see like what the climate
is but uh
of the cultural climate but
i use instagram and i facebook i used to use instagram to post to facebook but i kind
of stopped even doing that
because just it just seems gross yeah it’s just and
it’s these people in these verbose arguments about the politics and the economy and world events
and is that medium constructive to solving these problems no just not at all and it’s an attention
casino right the house always wins and we’re
you know eric you might see eric
weinstein in a thread you know
battling it out or sort of duking it out
with someone and maybe even reaching
some convergence on something but it
just whizzes by your feet and then it’s
gone right and all the effort that we’re
putting in to make these systems work
but then it’s just all gone what do you do i mean i try to very minimally use social media overall um
luckily the work is so busy that that’s easier um
i i want to say first that um
you know on the addiction fronts of these things i you know myself i’m very sensitive and
you know easily addicted by these things myself and that’s why
i think i notice you were saying in a
social dilemma it’s email for you huh
yeah i well i you know for me if i
refresh my email and pull to refresh
like a slot machine sometimes i’ll get invited to meet the president of such and such to
advise on regulation and sometimes i get a stupid newsletter from a politician i
don’t care about or something right
um so i email is very addictive
um it’s funny i talked to daniel
kahneman who wrote the he’s like the
founder of behavioral economics he wrote the book thinking fast and slow if you know that
one and he said as well that email was
uh the most addictive for him and he you
know the one thing you’ll find is the
people who know most about these sort of persuasive manipulative tricks they’ll say
we’re not immune to them just
because we know about them
dan ariely who’s another famous
persuasion behavioral economics guy talks about flattery and how flattery still feels good even
if i tell you i don’t mean it like
i love that that sweatshirt that’s an
awesome sweatshirt where’d you get it
you’re just gonna BLEEPED me but that’s that’s the um
it feels good to get flattery even if
you know that it’s not real
right and the point being that like
again we have so much evolutionary
wiring to care about what other people
think of us that just
because you know that they’re
manipulating you and the likes or whatever it still feels good to get those hundred
extra likes on that thing that you posted yeah when do the likes come about
um well let’s see well actually you know in the film you know justin rosenstein who’s the
inventor of the like button
talks about i think the first version
was something called beacon and it
arrived in 2006 i think
but then the simple like one-click like
button was like a little bit later like
2008 2009.
are you worried that it’s going to be
more and more invasive i mean you think
about the problems we’re dealing with now with facebook and twitter and instagram
all these within the last decade or so what what
do we have to look forward to i mean is
there something on the horizon that’s
going to be even more invasive
well we have to change this system
because as you said
technology is only to get it is only
going to get more immersed into our
lives and infuse into our lives not less
is technology going to get more
persuasive or less persuasive more
more is ai going to get better at
predicting our next move
or less good at predicting our next move
well it’s almost like we have to eliminate that and i mean it would be really hard to
tell them you can’t use algorithms anymore that depend on people’s attention spans
right it would be really hard but it seems like the only way for the internet to be pure
correct i think of this like the
environmental movement i mean some
people have compared the film
the social dilemma to um
rachel carson’s silent spring right where that was the birth that was
the book that birthed the environmental movement and that was in a republican
administration the knicks administration
we actually passed we created the epa
the environmental protection agency
we went from a world where we said the
environment’s something we don’t pay attention to to we passed a bunch i forgot the laws
we passed between 1963 and 1972 over a decade we started caring about the environment
we created things that protected the national parks we and i think that’s kind of what’s going
on here that you know
imagine for example it is illegal to show advertising on youth oriented social media apps between 12 a.m and 6 a.m
because you’re
basically monetizing loneliness and lack of sleep right like imagine that you cannot
advertise during those hours
because we say that like a national park
our children’s attention between this is
a very minimal example by this would be like you know taking the most obvious piece
of low-hanging fruit and land it’s like
let’s quarantine this off and say this is sacred but isn’t the problem
like the environmental protection agency it resonates with most people the idea
oh let’s protect the world for our children right there’s not a lot of people profiting
off of polluting the rivers right
but when you lose i mean over over
hunting you know certain lands or
overfishing certain fisheries and
collapsing them i mean there there are
if you have big enough corporations that
are based on an infinite growth profit model you know operating with less and less
you know resources to get this is a
problem we faced before
for so for sure but it’s not the same sort of scale as 300 and x amount of millions of people
and a vast majority of them are using some form of social media
and also this is not something that
really resonates in a very clear
like one plus one equals two way like the environmental protection agency
it makes sense like if you ask people right should you be able to throw
garbage into the ocean everyone’s gonna
say no that’s a terrible idea right
should you be able to make an algorithm
that shows people what they’re
interested in on youtube like yeah
what’s wrong with that well it’s more like sugar right
because sugar is always going to taste way
better than something else
because our evolutionary heritage says like that’s rare and so we
should pay more attention to it
this is like sugar for the fame lottery
for our attention for social approval
and so it’s always going to feel good
and we need to have consciousness about
it and we haven’t
banned sugar but we have created a new
conversation about what healthy
you know eating is right i mean there’s
a whole new fitness movement in sort of
yoga and all these other things that
people care more about their bodies and
health than they probably ever have i
think many of us wouldn’t have thought
we’d ever reach it through uh
you know
get through the period of soda being at the sort of pinnacle popularity that is i think
in 2013 or 14 was the year that water crossed over as being more of a successful drinking product than soda
i think really i think that’s true
you might want to look that up but
so i think we could have something like
that here we have to
i think of it this way if you want to
even get kind of weirdly
i don’t know spiritual or something
about it which is we are the only species that could even know that we were doing this to ourselves right
like we’re the only species with the capacity for self-awareness
to know that we have actually like roped ourselves into this matrix
of like literally the matrix um of of sort of undermining our own psychological weaknesses
like a lion that somehow manipulated its environment
so that there’s gazelles everywhere and is like overeating on gazelles
doesn’t have the self-awareness to know
wait a second if we keep doing this
this is going to cause all these other
problems it can’t do that
because its brain doesn’t have that capacity
our brain we do have the capacity for
self-awareness we can name
negativity bias which is that if i have
100 comments and 99 are positive my
brain goes to the negative we can name
that and once we’re aware of it we get some agency back we can name that we have a draw towards
social approval so when i see i’ve been
tagged in a photo i know that they’re just manipulating my social approval we can name social
reciprocity which is when i get all
those text messages and i feel oh i have
to get back to all these people
well that’s just an inbuilt bias that we
have to get back
reciprocity we have to get back to
people who do give stuff to us
the more we name our own biases like
confirmation bias we can name that
my brain is more likely to feel good
getting information that i already agree with that information that disagrees with me
once i know that about myself
i can get more agency back yeah and
we’re the only
like species that we know of that has
the capacity to realize that we’re in a
self-terminating
sort of system and we have to change
that by understanding our own weaknesses
and that we’ve created the system that
is undermining ourselves and i i think the film is doing that for a lot of people it
certainly is but i think it needs
more it’s like inspiration it needs a refresher on a regular basis right do you feel
this massive obligation to be that guy
that is out there sort of as the paul revere of uh
the technology influence
uh invasion i just see these problems
and i want them to go away yeah you know
i i didn’t
i you know didn’t desire and wake up to run a social movement but
honestly right now that’s what we’re trying to do um
with the center for humane technology
we realize that before the success of the film
we were actually more focused on working with technologists inside the industry
you know i come from silicon valley many of my friends are executives at the companies
and we have these inside relationships
so we focused at that level we also worked with policymakers um and we were trying to speak to policymakers
we weren’t trying to mobilize the whole world against this problem but with the film
suddenly we as an organization have had to do that and we’re frankly i wish we had i’m
speaking really honestly we i really
wish we’d had those funnels
so that people who saw the film could
have landed into you know a carefully
designed funnel where we actually
started mobilizing people to deal with this issue
because there are ways we can
do it we can pass certain laws
we have to have a new cultural sort of
set of norms about how do we want to
show up and use the system
um you know families and schools can
have whole new protocols of how we want
to do group migrations
because one of the problems is that if a teenager says by themselves
whoa i saw the film
i’m going to delete my instagram account
by myself or tiktok account by myself
that’s not enough
because all their friends are still using instagram and
tiktok and they’re still going to talk
about who’s dating who or gossip about this or homework or whatever on those services
and so the services instagram and tick
tock prey on social exclusion
that you will feel excluded if you don’t participate and the way to solve that is to get
whole schools or families together like
put different parent groups or whatever together and do a group migration
from instagram to signal or imessage or some kind of group thread
that way
because notice that when you as you said
apple’s a pretty good actor in this space if i make a facetime call to you
facetime isn’t trying to monetize my attention right it’s just sitting there being like
yet when how can i help you have a good
face it’s close to face-to-face
you know conversation is possible jamie
pulled up an article earlier that was saying that uh
apple was creating its own search engine yeah uh
i hope that is the case and i i hope
that if it is the case they apply the
same sort of ethics that they have
towards sharing your information that they do uh
with other things to to their search engine but i wonder
if there would be some sort of value in them creating a social media platform that doesn’t
rely on that sort of algorithm yep
well i think in general one of the exciting trends that has happened since the film is
there’s actually many more people
trying to build alternatives social
media products that are not based on
these business models yeah um uh
i could name a few but i i don’t
want to be endorsing it i mean there’s
people building marco polo clubhouse
wikipedia is trying to build a sort of for a non-profit version um
i always forget the names of these things but okay but the interesting thing is
that for the first time people
are trying to build something else
because now there’s enough
people who feel disgusted by the present
state of affairs and that wouldn’t be
possible unless we created a kind of a cultural movement based on something like the film that
reaches a lot of people it’s interesting
that you made this comparison to the environmental protection agency
because there’s kind of a parallel
in the way other countries handled the
environment versus the way we do and how
it makes them competitive i mean that’s
always been the republican argument for um
not getting rid of certain fossil fuels and coal and
all sorts of things that have a negative consequence we we need to be competitive with china
we need to be competitive with these
other countries that don’t have these regulations in effect the concern would be well first of all
the problem is these companies are
global right like facebook is global
if they put these regulations on america
but didn’t put these regulations worldwide then wouldn’t they use the uh
the income and the algorithm in other countries unchecked right
and have this negative consequence and gather up all this money which is why
just like sugar it’s like everyone
around the world has to understand and be more antagonistic yeah and not like sugar’s evil but just
you have to have a common awareness
about the problem but how could you educate people that like if you’re talking about some a
country like myanmar or
these other countries that that have had
these like serious consequences
because of facebook how how could you possibly get
our ideas across to them if we don’t
even know their language and it’s just
this system that’s already set up in this very advantageous way for them
where facebook comes on their phone like
how could you hit the brakes on that
well i mean first i just want to say this is
an incredibly hard and depressing problem yeah just the scale of it right right um
you need something like a global i mean language independent global self-awareness about this problem now
again i don’t want to be tweeting the
horn about the film but the thing i’m excited about is it launched on netflix in 190 countries
and in 30 languages so you shouldn’t [Laughter] well i think you know the film was seen
in 30 languages so
you know the cool thing is i wish i
could show the world my inbox i think
people see the film
and they feel like oh my god this is huge and i’m
a huge problem and i’m all alone how are
we ever going to fix this
but i get emails every day from indonesia chile argentina brazil people saying oh
my god this is exactly what’s going on
in my country i mean i’ve
never felt more optimistic and i felt
really pessimistic for the last eight
years working on this
because there really hasn’t been enough movement
but i think for the first time there’s a
global awareness now that we could then
start to mobilize i know the eu’s
mobilizing canada is mobilizing
australia’s mobilizing
california state is mobilizing with prop 24
there’s a whole bunch of movement now in the space
and they have a new rhetorical arsenal
of you know why we have to make this bigger transition now
you know are we going to get all the countries that you know
where there’s the six different major dialects in in ethiopia
where they’re going to know about this
i don’t think the film was translated into all those dialects
i think we need to do more um it’s it’s a really really hard messy problem
but on the topic of um uh
if if we don’t do it someone else will
you know one interesting thing in the environmental movement was um
there’s a great um
wnyc radio piece about the history of lead
and when we regulated lead i don’t do
you know anything about this
yeah i do yeah yeah the cruises matches
up with with your experience
the my understanding is that obviously
lead was this sort of miracle thing we
put it in paint we put it in gas
it was like great and then um
the way we figured out that we should regulate
lead out of our sort of infused product supply is by proving there was this this guy
who proved that it dropped kids iq by
four points for every i think
microgram per deciliter i think
in other words for for the amount of if you had a microgram of lead per deciliter of either
i’m guessing air um
it would drop
like the iq of kids by four points
and they measured this by actually doing
a sample on their teeth or something
because lead shows up in your bones i think
and they proved that if the iq points dropped by four points
it would lower future
age warning age earning excuse me
wage earning potential of those kids
which would then lower the gdp of the country
because it would be shifting the iq of the entire country down
by four points if not more
based on how much lead is in the environment
if you zoom out and say is social media
now let’s replace the word iq
which is also a wrought term
because there’s like a whole bunch of views about how that’s
designed in certain ways and not others and measuring intelligence
let’s replace iq with problem solving capacity what is your problem solving capacity
which is actually how they talk about it
in this radio episode
um and imagine that we have a societal
iq or a societal problem-solving
capacity the u.s has a societal iq
russia has a societal iq germany has a societal iq
how good is a country at solving its problems
now imagine that what does
social media do to our societal iq
what distorts our ideas it gives us a
bunch of false narratives
it fills us with misinformation it makes
it impossible to agree with each other
and in a democracy if you don’t agree
with each other and you can’t even do
compromise people recognize that
politics is invented to avoid warfare right so we have compromise and understanding so that we don’t
like physically are violent with each other
we have compromise and conversation
if social media makes compromise conversation
and undershared understanding and shared truth
impossible it doesn’t drop our societal
iq by four points it drops it to zero
because you can’t solve any problem
whether it’s human trafficking
or poverty or climate issues or
um you know racial injustice whatever it
is that you care about
it depends on us having some shared view
about what we agree on
and by the way and on the optimistic
side there are countries like taiwan
that have actually built a digital
democratic sort of social media
type thing audrey tang you should have
audrey tang on your show she’s amazing
she’s the digital minister of taiwan
and they’ve actually built a system that
rewards unlikely consensus so when two
people who would traditionally disagree
post something online um
and when when they actually two people who
traditionally disagree actually agree on something
that’s what gets boosted to the top of
the way that we look at our information feeds really yeah
so it’s about finding consensus
whether it’d be unlikely
and saying hey actually you know you joe
and tristan you typically you agree you
disagree on these six things
you agree on these three things and of
things that we’re going to encourage you
to talk about on a menu we hand you a
menu of the things you agree on
and how did they manipulate that um
honestly we did a great interview with her on our podcast um
that people can listen to
uh i think you should have iran honestly
i would love to but what does your
podcast again tell people
it’s called your undivided attention um
and with the interview is with audrey tang is her name
uh and i think that’s this is one model of how do you have
you know sort of digital media bolted
onto the top of a democracy and have it work better as opposed to how do you it just
degrades into kind of nonsense and
polarization and inability to agree
that’s such a unique situation too right
because china doesn’t recognize them and there’s
a real threat that they’re going to be invaded by china correct and so what’s interesting about
taiwan is there’s we didn’t we haven’t
talked about the disinformation issues but it’s under
like you said not just physical threat
from china but massive propaganda
disinformation campaigns are trying to run there right i’m sure and so what’s amazing is that
their digital media system is good at
um dealing with these disinformation
campaigns and conspiracy theories and other things even in the face of a huge threat like
china but there’s more binding energy in the country
because they all know
that there’s a tiny island and there’s a
looming threat of this big country
whereas the united states we’re not this
tiny island with a looming threat
elsewhere in fact many people don’t know
or don’t think that there’s actually
information warfare going on
um i actually think it’s really
important to point out to people that um
the social media is one of our biggest national security risks
because while we’re obsessed with protecting our
physical borders and building walls and
you know spending a trillion dollars
redoing the nuclear fleet
um we left the digital border wide open
like if russia or china tried to fly a plane into the united states our pentagon and
billions of dollars of defense
infrastructure from raytheon and boeing
or whatever will shoot that thing down
and it doesn’t get in if they try to
come into the country they’ll get
stopped by the passport control system
ideally if they try to fly if russia or china try to fly
an information bomb into the country
instead of being met by the department
of defense they’re met by a facebook
algorithm with a white glove that says
exactly which zip code you want to target like it’s the opposite of protection so
social media makes us more vulnerable i think of it like
if you imagine like a bank that spent billions of dollars um
you know surrounding the bank with physical bodyguards right like just the buffers guys in
every single quarter you just totally
secured the bank but then you installed
on the bank a computer system
that everyone interacts with and no one
changes the default password
from like lower case password anyone can hack in that’s what we do when we install
facebook in our society or you install facebook in ethiopia
because if you think russia or china you know or
iran or south korea or excuse me north korea um
influencing our election is bad just
keep in mind the like dozens of countries throughout africa where we actually know
recently there was a huge campaign
that the stanford cyber policy center
did a report on of russia targeting i
think something like seven or eight
major countries and disinformation
campaigns running in those countries
or the facebook whistleblower who came
out about a month ago uh
sophie zhang i think is her name
uh saying that she personally had to step in to deal with
disinformation campaigns in honduras azerbaijan um
i think greece or some other
countries like that so the scale of what these technology companies are managing
they’re managing the information
environments for all these
these countries but they don’t have the
resources to do it so they
not only that they’re not trained to do
it they’re not qualified correct they’re
making up as they go along
20 to 30 to four and they’re way behind
the curve when when i had
rene de rest on and she detailed all the issues with the uh
internet research agency in russia and
what they did during the 2016 campaign
for both sides i mean the idea is they just promoted trump but they were basically selling the seeds of uh
just the decline of the democracy
they were trying to figure out how to create turmoil
and they were doing it in this like very bizarre calculated way
that it didn’t seem it was hard to see like
what’s the end game here
well the end game is to have everybody fight
yeah i mean that’s really what the end game was
and if i’m you know one of our major adversaries
you know after world war ii
there was no ability to use kinetic like nukes or something
on the bigger countries right
like that’s all done
so the what’s the best way to take down the biggest you know country
you know on the planet on the block you use its own internal tensions
against itself this is what sun tzu
would tell you to do yeah
and that’s never been easier
because of facebook and
because of these platforms being
open to do this manipulation
and if i’m looking now we’re four days
away from the u.s elections or something
like that when this goes out jesus christ there is never we have never been more
destabilized as a country
until now i mean this is the most
disabled you probably have ever
been i would say um and polarized
um maybe people would argue the civil
war was worse but in recent history
um there is maximum incentive
for foreign actors to drive up again not
one side or the other but to drive us
into conflict so i would really
you know i think what we all need to do
is recognize how much incentive there is
to plant stories to actually have so
physical violence on the streets i think
there was just a story
wasn’t we talking about this morning that um
there’s some kind of truck i
think in philadelphia or dc
loaded with explosives or something like
this there’s there’s such an incentive to try to you know throw the agent provocateur
like throw the first stone throw the first um
you know molotov cocktail throw the first uh
you know make the first shot fired uh
to drive up that conflict
and i think we have to
realize how much that may be artificially motivated very much so and the rene de resta
podcast that i did where she went into
depth about all the different
ways that they did it and the most curious one being funny memes yep that there’s so many of
the memes that you read that you laughed at yeah well there’s it was just so weird
that’s they were humorous and she said she
looked at probably a hundred thousand memes and the funny thing is you actually can
agree with them right like they should
you would you would laugh at them
like oh you know and they’re being
constructed by foreign agents
that are doing this to try to mock
certain aspects of our society
and pit people against each other and create a mockery and you know back in 2016 there was no
there’s very little
collaboration between our defense
industry and cia and dod and people like that uh
and the tech platforms and the tech
platform said it’s government’s job to
deal with if foreign actors are doing these things how do you stop something like the ira
like say if they’re creating memes in
particular and they’re funny memes
well so one of the issues that renee
brings up and i’m just a huge fan of her and her work uh
is as am i yeah uh
is that if i’m you know china
i i don’t need to invent some fake news
story i just find someone in your
society who’s already saying what i
want you to be talking about and i just
like amplify them up i take that dial
and i just turn it up to ten right so i find your texas secessionists and like oh texas
that would be a good thing if i’m trying
to rip the country apart so i’m going to
take those tested secessionists and the california secessionists and i’m just going to dial them up to

10. so those are the ones we hear from
    now if you’re trying to stop me in your
    facebook and you’re the
    integrity team or something on what
    grounds are you trying to stop me
    because it’s your own people your own free speech i’m just the one amplifying the one i
    want to be out there
    right and so that’s what gets tricky
    about this is i think our moral
    concepts that we hold so dear of free
    speech are inadequate in an attention
    economy that is hackable
    and it’s really more about what’s
    getting the attention rather than what
    are individuals saying or can’t say
    and you know again they’ve created this
    frankenstein where they’re making mostly automated decisions about who’s looking like what
    pattern behavior or coordinated and
    authentic behavior here or that and
    they’re shutting down
    people i don’t know if people know this
    people facebook shut down two billion
    fake accounts i think this is a stat
    from a year ago
    they shut down two billion fake accounts
    they have three billion active real users
    do you think that those two billion were the perfect
    like real you know real fake accounts
    and they didn’t miss any or they didn’t overwhelm
    and took some real accounts down with it you know
    our friend brett weinstein he just got taken down by facebook
    i think he saw that
    that seemed calculated though
    facebook has shut down 5.4 billion fake accounts this year
    and that was in november 29th
    oh my god
    oh my god that is insane that’s so many
    and so again it’s the scale that these things are operating at
    and that’s why you know when brett got his thing taken down
    i didn’t like that but i
    it’s not like there’s this vendetta against brett right
    oh i don’t know about that that seemed to me to be a calculated thing
    because uh
    you know eric uh
    actually tweeted about it saying that
    you know you could probably find the tweet
    because i retweeted it
    like basically it was reviewed by a
    person so you’re lying
    he’s like this is not something that was
    uh taken down by an algorithm he
    believes that it was
    because it was unity 2020 platform
    where they’re trying to bring together
    conservatives and and liberals
    and try to find some common ground and
    create like a third party candidate that combines the best of both worlds
    i don’t understand what policy his uni unity 2020 thing was going up
    against like i have no idea he’s going
    against a two-party system
    the idea is that it’s taking away votes
    from biden and then it might help trump win right banned him off twitter as well you
    know that too they they blocked the
    account or something from they
    they banned the entirety they banned the
    20 unity 2020 account yeah
    unity yeah i mean literally unity
    they’re like nope no unity BLEEPED you
    we want biden yeah the political bias on social media is undeniable and that’s
    maybe the least of our concerns in the long run but it’s a tremendous issue
    and it also it it for sure sows the seeds of discontent
    and it creates more animosity and it creates more conflict the interesting thing is that
    if i’m one of our adversaries
    i see that there is this view that
    people don’t like the social media
    platforms that i want them
    to be more like let’s say i’m rushing
    china right and i’m currently using
    facebook and twitter successfully to run information campaigns and then i want them i can actually
    plant a story so that they end up
    shutting it down and shutting down
    conservatives or shutting down one side
    which then forces the platforms to open
    up more so that i then russia china can
    keep manipulating even more i understand yeah so right now they
    want it to be a free-for-all where
    there’s no moderation at all
    because that allows them to get in
    and they can weaponize the conversation
    against itself right i don’t see a way out of this tristan we have to all be aware of it i
    mean even if we are
    all aware of it it seems so pervasive
    yeah well it’s not just pervasive it’s
    like we said it’s
    we’re 10 years into this hypnosis experiment this is the largest psychological
    experiment we’ve ever run on humanity
    it’s insane
    it is insane and it and it’s also with
    tools that never existed before
    evolutionarily so like we would we
    really are not designed
    just the way these brightly lit metal
    devices and glass devices
    interact with your brain they’re so enthralling right we’ve never had to resist anything
    like this before with the things we’ve
    had to resist is don’t go to the bar
    you know you have an alcohol problem
    stop smoking cigarettes it’ll give you cancer right we’ve never had a thing that does so much right
    you can call your mom you can text
    a good friend you can
    you can receive your news you can get an
    amazing email about this project you’re working at and it could suck up your time staring
    at butts and the
    and the infusion of the things that you
    that are necessary for life like text messaging or like looking something up are infused
    and right next to
    right all of the sort of corrupt stuff
    right and if you’re using it to order
    food and if you’re using it to
    get an uber and right but imagine if we
    all wiped our phones of all the
    extractive business model stuff and we
    only had the tools
    have you thought about using a light
    phone yeah it’s funny i
    those guys just to be brought up in my
    awareness more more often
    um for those who don’t know it’s like
    it’s like a mini
    one of the guys on the documentary is
    one of the creators of it right
    no i think you’re thinking of tim kendall who started he’s the guy who invented who brought in
    facebook’s business model of advertising
    and he runs a company now called moment that shows you uh
    the number of hours you spend on
    different apps and helps you use it
    someone involved in the documentary was also a part of the light phone team no no no
    not not officially no i don’t think so
    um but the light phone is like a
    basically a thing black and white black and white phone things text
    and i think it does it plays music now which i was like well that’s a
    mistake right like that’s a slippery slope that’s the thing
    and we have to all be comfortable with losing access to things that we might
    love right like oh maybe you do want to
    take notes this time but you don’t have
    your full keyboard to do that and are you willing to i think the thing is one thing people
    can do is to take like a digital sabbath
    one day a week off completely
    because at the very
    imagine if if you got several hundred
    million people to do that that drops the
    revenue of these companies by 15
    because that’s one out of seven days
    that you’re not on the system so long as
    you don’t rebalance and
    use it more on the other days i’m
    inclined to think that apple’s
    their solution is really the way out of this that to opt out of all sharing of your information and uh
    if if they could come up with
    some sort of a social media platform
    that kept that as an ethic
    yeah i mean it might allow us to
    communicate with each other
    but stop all this algorithm nonsense and
    it’s look if anybody has the power to do
    it they have so much goddamn money
    totally well and also they’re like that
    you know people talk about
    you know the government regulating these
    platforms but apple is kind of the government that can regulate the attention economy
    because when they do this thing we talked about earlier of um
    saying do you want to be tracked right and they give you this option when
    like 99 of people are gonna say no i
    don’t want to be tracked right when they
    do that they just put a 30
    tax on all the advertising-based businesses
    because now you don’t get as personalized in ad right
    which means they make less money
    which means that business model is less
    attractive to venture capitalists to
    fund the next thing which means
    so they’re actually enacting right a
    kind of a carbon tax but it’s like a
    uh you know on the polluting stuff right
    they’re enacting a kind of
    um social media polluting stuff they’re
    taxing by 30 but they could do more than that like imagine you know they have this 30 70 split on um
    app developers get 70 of the revenue
    when you buy stuff and apple keeps 30 percent they could modify that percentage based
    on how much sort of social
    value that those things are delivering to society so this gets a little bit weird people
    may not like this but if you think about
    who’s the real customer that we want to be like how do we want things oriented how
    should we if i’m an app developer i want
    to make money the more i’m helping
    society and helping individuals not how
    much i’m extracting and stealing their time and attention um
    and imagine that governments in the future actually paid um
    like some kind of budget into let’s say the app store there’s anti-trust issues
    with this but you pay money into the app store and then as apps started helping people
    with more social outcomes like let’s say
    learning programs or schools or things
    like khan academy things like this
    that more money flows in the direction
    of where people got that value
    and it was that that revenue split
    between apple and the app developers
    um ends up going more to things that end
    up helping people as opposed to things
    that were just good at capturing attention and monetizing uh
    zombie behavior one of my favorite
    lines in the film is justin rosenstein
    from the like button
    um saying that you know so long as a
    whale is worth more dead
    than alive and a tree is worth more as lumber and two-by-fours than a living tree now
    we’re the whale
    we’re the tree we’re worth more when we have predictable zombie-like behaviors when
    we’re more addicted distracted outraged polarized and disinformed
    than if we’re a living thriving citizen or a growing child
    that’s like playing with their friends
    and i think that that kind of distinction
    that just like we protect national parks
    or we protect you know certain fisheries
    and we don’t kill the whales in those areas
    or something we need to really protect
    like we have to call out what’s sacred to us now
    yeah it’s um
    it’s an excellent message
    my problem that i see is that
    i just don’t know how well that message
    is going to be absorbed on the people that are already in the trance i mean i think it’s
    so difficult for people to put things
    down i mean how like i was telling you
    how difficult it is to for me to tell my
    friends don’t read the comments
    right you know right it’s it’s hard to
    have that kind of discipline and it’s
    hard to have that kind of
    because people do get bored and when
    they get bored like if you’re waiting in line for somewhere you pull out your phone
    you’re at the doctor’s office you pull out your phone like totally i mean and that’s why
    you know and i do that right i mean this
    is incredible right this is incredibly hard um
    back in the day uh
    when i was at
    google trying to change
    i tried to change google from the inside
    for two years before leaving what was it like there pl please share your experiences
    because when you said you tried to change it
    from the inside what kind of resistance
    were you met with and what was their
    reaction to these thoughts that you had
    about the unbelievable negative consequences of well this is in 2013 so we didn’t know
    about all the negative consequences but
    you saw the writing on the wall
    at least some of it some of it yeah i
    mean the notion that things were
    competing for attention which would mean
    that they would need to compete to get
    more and more persuasive and hack more
    and more of our vulnerabilities and that
    that would grow that was the core insight i didn’t know that it would lead to
    polarization or conspiracy theory
    like recommendations but i would i did
    know you know more addiction
    kids having less you know weaker
    relationships when did it
    occur to you like what were your initial feelings um
    i was on a hiking trip in the santa cruz
    mountains with our co-founder now
    um aza raskin um
    it’s funny enough our
    co-founder aiza
    his dad was jeff raskin who invented the
    macintosh project at apple i don’t know
    if you know the history there but
    he started the macintosh project and
    actually came up with the word
    um humane to describe the humane
    interface and that’s where our name
    and our work comes from is from his
    father’s work he and i were in the
    mountains in santa cruz and just experiencing nature and just came back and realized like
    this all of this stuff that we’ve built
    is just distracting us
    from the stuff that’s really important
    and that’s when coming back from that trip um
    i made the first google deck that
    then spread virally throughout the
    company saying never before in history
    have you know 50 designers uh
    you know white 20 to 35 year old engineers who look like me
    to hold the collective psyche of humanity
    and then that presentation was released
    and about you know 10 000 people at
    google saw it it was actually the number one um
    meme within the company they have
    this internal thing inside of google called moma that has like people can post like gifs
    and memes about various topics
    and it was the number one meme that hey
    we need to talk about this
    at this week’s tgif which is the like
    weekly thank god it’s friday type
    company meeting um
    it didn’t get talked
    about but i got emails from across the company
    saying we definitely need to do something about this
    it was just very hard to get momentum on it
    and really the key interfaces to change within
    google are chrome and android
    because those are the neutral portals
    into which you’re then using
    apps and notifications and websites and
    all of that like those are the kind of
    governments of the attention economy that google runs and when you work there did they um
    did you have to use android was it part of the requirement to work there no i mean a
    lot of people had android phones i still used an iphone was it an issue no no i mean people
    because they realized that they needed
    products to work on on all the phones i
    mean if you worked directly on android then you would have to use an android phone but we
    tried to get you know some of those things like the screen time features that are now
    launched you know so everyone now has on their phone like it shows you the number of hours or
    whatever is that on android as well it
    is yeah and actually that came i think
    as a result of this
    advocacy and that’s shipping on a
    billion phones which shows you you can
    you can change this stuff right like
    that goes against their financial interest people spending less time in their
    phones getting less notifications it does but it doesn’t work well correct so it
    doesn’t actually work is the thing
    yeah and let’s separate the intention
    and the fact that they did it it’s like
    labels on cigarettes that tell you it’s
    going to give you cancer like by the
    time you’re buying them you’re already hooked correct i mean it’s even worse imagine like um
    every cigarette cigarette box had like
    um a little pencil inside so you can
    mark there’s like little streaks that
    said the number of days in a row you
    haven’t smoked and you could like mark
    each day it’s like it’s too late
    right right like yeah um
    it’s just the wrong paradigm um
    the fundamental thing we have to
    change is the incentives and how money flows
    because we want money flowing in the
    direction of the more these things help us like leave me a concrete example like let’s say um
    you want to learn a musical instrument
    and you go to youtube to pick up ukulele or whatever um
    and you’re seeing how to play the ukulele like from that point in a system that was designed in a
    humane and sort of time well-spent kind of way it would really ask you instead of
    saying here’s 20 more videos that are
    going to just like suck you down a rabbit hole it would sort of be more oriented
    towards what do you really need help with like do you need to buy ukulele here’s a
    link to amazon to get the ukulele are
    you looking for a ukulele teacher let me
    do a quick scan on your facebook or
    twitter search to find out which of
    those people are ukulele teachers
    do you need instant like tutoring
    because there’s actually the service you
    never heard of called skillshare or something like that where you can get instant ukulele
    tutoring and if we’re really designing
    these things to be about
    what would most help you next you know
    we’re only as good as the menu of
    choices on life’s menu and right now the menu is here’s something else to addict you and
    keep you hooked instead of here’s a next
    step that would actually be
    on the trajectory of helping people live their lives better
    but you’d have to incentivize the companies
    because like there’s so much incentive on getting you addicted
    because there’s so much financial reward what would be the financial reward that
    they could have to
    get you something that would be helpful
    for you like lessons or this
    i mean so one way that could work is
    like let’s say people pay a monthly
    subscription of like i don’t know 20
    bucks a month or something so it’s never gonna work i get you but like let’s say you pay
    some you put money into a pot
    where the possibility but then we have
    the problem the problem is like
    it costs some money versus free like
    there was a um
    there’s a company that
    still exists for now that uh
    was trying to do the netflix of podcasting and uh
    they they approached us and
    they’re like we’re just gonna get all
    these people together and they’re gonna make them people gonna pay to use your podcast i’m
    like why would they do that when
    podcasts are free yeah like that’s one
    of the reasons why podcasts work is
    because they’re free
    right when things are free they’re
    they’re attractive
    it’s easy when things cost money you
    have to have something that’s extraordinary like netflix
    yeah like when you say the netflix of podcasting well
    netflix makes their own shows right they spend millions of dollars on special effects
    and all these different things and
    they’re really like enormous projects like
    you’re you’re just talking about people talking
    BLEEPED and you want money right well
    that’s the thing is we have to actually
    deliver something that’s totally qualitatively better right and would also have to be like someone
    like you or someone who’s really aware of the
    issues that we’re dealing with with
    addictions to social media should have
    to say this is this is the
    best possible alternative like in this environment you are you yes you are paying a certain
    amount of money per month
    but maybe that could get factored into
    your cell phone bill
    and maybe with this sort of an ecosystem
    right you’re no longer being uh
    drawn in
    by your addictions and you know it’s not
    playing for your attention span
    it’s rewarding you in a very productive way and imagine joe if like 15 more of your time
    was just way better spent like he was
    actually spent on you were
    actually doing the things you cared
    about and it actually helped improve
    your life yeah like imagine when you use
    email if it was truly designed
    i mean forget email people don’t relate to that
    because email isn’t that popular but whatever it is that’s a huge time sync
    for you for me email’s a huge one for me
    you know web browsing or whatever is a
    big one imagine that those things were
    so much better designed that i
    actually wrote back to the right emails
    and i mostly didn’t think about the rest
    that when i was spending time on you
    know whatever i was spending time on that it was really my my more and more of my life
    was a life well lived and time well
    spent that’s like the retrospective view
    i keep going to apple but
    because i think that the only social media comp or
    excuse me the only technology company
    that does have these ethics to sort of protect privacy
    have you thought about coming to them
    yep have you well i mean i i think that they’ve made
    great first steps and they were the
    first along with google to do those
    the screen time management stuff but
    that was just this
    barely scratching the surface like baby
    baby baby steps like what we really need them to do is radically um
    reimagine how those incentives and how the phone
    fundamentally works so it’s not just
    all these colorful icons and one of the
    problems they do have a disincentive
    which is a lot of the revenue comes from
    gaming and as they move more into
    apple tv competing with hbo and hulu and
    netflix and that whole thing where they
    they need subscriptions so the
    apple’s revenue on devices and hardware
    is sort of maxing out
    and where they’re going to get their
    next bout of revenue to keep their stock price up is on these subscriptions i am less
    concerned with those addictions
    i’m less concerned with gaming
    addictions than i have information addictions
    because at least it’s not
    fundamentally altering your view of the
    world right it’s screwing up democracy
    and making it impossible to agree well
    and this is coming from a person that’s had like legitimate video game addictions in the past but uh
    like my wife is addicted to subway surfer like i don’t know what it is it’s a
    crazy game it’s like you’re riding on
    the top of subways you jumping around
    it’s like
    it’s really ridiculous but it’s fun like
    you watch like whoa but i don’t BLEEPED
    with video games but i watch it and
    it’s those games at least
    are enjoyable there’s something silly
    about it like ah
    BLEEPED and then you start doing it again
    when i see people getting angry about
    things on social media i don’t see
    the upside right i don’t mind them
    making a profit off games
    there is an issue though with games that
    addict children and then these children
    there’s like you could spend money on like roadblocks and you can you know have all these
    different things you spend money on you wind up you know you’re having these enormous
    bills you leave your kid with an ipad
    and you come back you have a 500
    bill like what did you do yeah this is
    this is an issue for sure but at least
    it’s not an issue
    in that it’s changing their view of of
    the world right and i i feel like
    there’s a way
    for i keep going back to apple but a company like apple to rethink the way that you know they
    already have a walled garden right with imessage and facetime and all this different i can
    totally build those things out i mean
    imessage in icloud could be
    the basis for some new neutral social
    media yeah it’s not based on instant
    social approval and rewards right yes
    they can make it easier to share
    information with small groups of friends
    and have that all synced and even
    you know in the pre-covet days i was
    thinking about apple a lot i think
    you’re right by the way to really poke
    on them i think they’re the one company
    that’s in a position
    to lead on this and they also have a
    history of thinking along those lines
    you know they had this feature that’s
    kind of hidden now but to find my
    friends right they call it find my now
    it’s all buried together so you can find your devices and find your friends but in a
    pre-coveted world imagine they really built out the you know where are my friends right
    now and making it easier to know when
    you’re nearby someone
    so you can easily more easily get
    together in person so right now all the
    like to the extent facebook wants to
    bring people closer together they don’t
    want to and again this is pre-coveted but they don’t want to incentivize lots and
    lots of facebook events they really care
    about groups that keep people posting it
    online and looking at ads
    because of the category of bringing people
    closer together they want to do the
    online screen time based version of that
    right as opposed to the offline
    apple by contrast if you had little
    imessage groups of friends you could say
    hey does everyone in this little group
    want to opt into being able to see where
    each other are where we all
    are on say weekdays between 5 and 8 pm
    or something like that so you could like time bound it and make it easier for serendipitous
    connection and availability to happen
    that’s hard to do it’s hard to design
    that but there’s things like that that
    apple’s in a position to do
    if it really took on that mantle and i
    think as people get more and more
    skeptical of these other
    products they’re in a better and better
    position to do that
    one of the antitrust issues is
    do we want a world where our entire well-being as a society
    depends on what one massive corporation worth over a trillion dollars does or doesn’t do
    right like we need more openness to try different things and
    we’re really at the behest of whether one or two companies apple or google
    does something more radical
    and there has to be some massive
    incentive for them to do something
    that’s really going to change
    yeah the way we interface with these
    devices and the way we interface with social media and i don’t know what incentive exists
    it’s more potent than financial
    incentives well and this is where the
    you know if the government in the same
    way that we want to transition long term uh
    from a fossil fuels oriented economy
    to something that that doesn’t
    um that changes the kind of pollution levels uh
    you know we have a hugely emitting um
    you know society ruining kind of
    business model of this attention extractive paradigm and we could long term sort of just like
    a progressive tax on that
    transition to some other thing the
    government could do that right um
    that’s not like who do we censor it’s
    how do we disincentivize these
    businesses to pay for the
    sort of life support systems of society
    that they’ve ruined a good example of this
    i think in australia is there um
    i think it’s australia
    that’s regulated
    that google and facebook have to pay the
    publishers who they’re basically hollowing out
    because one of the effects
    we’ve not talked about
    is the way that google and facebook have
    hollowed out the fourth estate in journalism i mean
    because journalism has turned
    into in local web news websites
    can’t make any money except by basically producing click bait so even to the extent that local
    newspapers exist they only exist by basically click betification of even lower and lower paid you know
    workers who are just generating content farms right so anyway so that’s an example of
    if you force those companies to
    pay to to revitalize the fourth estate
    and to make sure we have a
    very sustainably funded fourth estate
    that doesn’t have to produce this clickbait stuff uh
    that’s that’s you know another direction yeah that uh
    that’s interesting that they have to pay i mean these are the wealthiest
    companies in like the history of humanity right so that’s the thing so we
    shouldn’t be cautious about how much
    they should have to pay
    except we also don’t want to happen on
    the other end right you don’t want to
    have a world where
    you know we have roundup making a crazy amount of money from giving everybody cancer and lymphoma from uh
    you know all the chemicals right glyphosates and then they pay everybody on the other end
    after a lawsuit of a billion dollars but
    now everyone’s got cancer let’s actually
    do it in a way
    so we don’t want a world where facebook and google profit off of the erosion of our social fabric
    and then they pay us back
    how do you quantify how how much money
    they have to pay
    to journalism yeah it seems like it’s almost a form of socialism or yeah i mean this
    is where like that
    the iq led example is interesting
    because they were able to
    disincentivize and tax the lead producers
    because they were able to produce some
    results on how much this lowered the
    wage earning potentials of the entire
    population i mean like how much does
    this cost our society we used to say
    free is the most expensive business
    model we’ve ever created
    because we get the free downgrading of
    our attention spans our mental health
    our kids like our ability to agree with
    each other our capacity to do anything as a democracy like yeah we got all that for free
    wonderful obviously we get lots of
    benefits and i want to
    acknowledge that but that’s just not
    sustainable the real question i mean
    right now we’re
    we have huge existential problems we
    have a global competition power competition going on
    i think china just passed the gdp of the us
    i believe there is you know if
    if we care about the us having a future in which it can lead the world in in some meaningful and enlightened way
    we have to deal with this problem
    and we have to have a world where digital democracy outcompetes digital authoritarianism
    which is the china model
    and right now that builds more coherence
    and is more efficient and doesn’t evolve the way that our current system you know does
    i think taiwan estonia and countries like that where
    they are doing digital democracies are
    good examples that we can learn from
    but we’re behind right now well china
    also has a really fascinating situation with huawei where google is banned huawei
    so you can’t have google applications on
    huawei so now huawei is creating their own operating system and they have their own
    ecosystem now that they’re building up
    and that’s you know it’s it’s weird that
    there’s only a few different operating systems now i mean there’s a very small amount of
    people using linux phones
    then you have a large amount of people
    using android and iphones and if china
    becomes the first to
    adopt their own operating system and then they have even more unchecked rules and
    regulations in regards to like
    the influence they have over their
    people with an operating system that
    they’ve developed
    and they control and who knows what kind
    of back doors and
    spying tons yeah it’s
    it’s weird yeah when you see this
    do you like it feels
    so futile for me on the outside looking in looking but you you’re working on this
    how long do you anticipate is going to be a part of your
    life i mean what does it feel like to you [Music] um
    i mean it’s not easy right um
    in the film ends with this question
    do you think we’re gonna get there
    yeah i just say we have to like i mean
    if you care about this going well i wake
    up every day and i ask
    what will it take for this whole thing
    to go well like
    and how do we just orient each of our
    choices as much as possible
    towards this going well we have a whole
    bunch of problems i do
    look a lot at the environmental issues
    the permafrost methane bombs like
    the timelines that we have to deal with
    certain problems are crunching and we
    also have certain dangerous exponential
    technologies that are emerging
    decentralization of you know crispr and
    like there’s a lot of existential
    threats i hang out with a lot with the
    sort of existential threats community
    it’s going to take it must be a lot of fun it’s uh
    there’s a lot of psychological
    problems in that community actually
    a lot of depression there’s only an
    imaginary suicide as well
    it’s it’s uh
    you know it’s
    it’s hard but i i think we each have a
    responsibility when you see this stuff to say what will it take for this to go well
    and i will say that really seeing
    the film impact people the way that it has i i used to feel like oh my god how are
    we ever going to do this no one cares
    like none of people know
    right at the very least we now have about 50
    40 to 50 million people
    who are at least introduced to the problem
    the question is how do we harness them
    into a collective movement and that’s
    what we’re trying to do next i mean i
    i’ll say also these issues get
    more and more weird over time my
    co-founder is raskin will say that it’s
    making reality more and more virtual over time
    because we haven’t talked about how as technology advances
    at hacking our weaknesses we start to
    prefer it over the real thing we start
    for example there’s a recent company vc funded
    raised like i think it’s worth like over 125 million dollars
    and what they make are virtual influencers
    so these are like virtual people virtual video
    that is more entertaining more interesting
    and that fans like more than real people
    oh boy and it’s kind of related to the kind of
    deep fake world right where like people
    prefer this to the real thing and cheri turkel um
    you know who’s been working at mit
    wrote the book reclaiming conversation
    and alone together she’s been talking
    about this forever that
    over time humans will prefer connection to robots and bots
    and the computer generated thing more than the real thing
    think about ai generated music being more it’ll start to sweeten our taste buds and give us exactly that
    thing we’re looking for better than we will know ourselves just like youtube can give us the
    perfect next video that actually every
    bone in our body will say actually i
    kind of do want to watch that even
    though it’s a machine pointed at my
    brain calculating the next thing
    there’s an example from microsoft
    writing this chat bot called
    xiaoice i couldn’t pronounce it that
    after nine weeks people
    preferred that chatbot to their real friends and 25 or
    10 10 to 25 percent of their users
    actually said i love you to the chatbot
    oh boy and that many there are several
    who actually said that it convinced them not to commit suicide to have this relationship with
    this chatbot so it’s her
    it’s her it’s the movie exactly which is
    what so all these things are the same right we’re veering into a direction where
    technology if it’s so good at meeting these underlying paleolithic emotions that we have
    the way out of it is we have to see that
    this is what’s going on we have to see
    and reckon with ourselves saying this is
    how i work i have this negativity bias
    if i get those 99 comments and one spot
    one’s positive comments and one’s negative
    my mind is going to go to the negative
    i don’t see that
    i see you in the future wearing an overcoat you’re you are literally lawrence
    fishburne in the matrix
    trying to tell people to wake up well
    that’s there’s a line in the social
    dilemma where i say how do you wake up
    from the matrix if you don’t know you’re in the matrix well that is the issue right and i even
    in the matrix we at least had a shared
    matrix the problem now is that in the
    matrix each of us have our own matrix
    that’s the real kicker
    i struggle with the idea that this is all inevitable
    because this is a natural
    course of progression with technology
    and that it’s sort of figuring out the best way to to have us with
    as little resistance embed ourselves into its system and that our ideas are what we are
    with emotions and with our biological
    uh issues that this is just how life is
    and this is how life always should be
    but this is just all we’ve ever known
    that’s all we’ve ever known einstein
    didn’t write into the laws of physics
    that social media has to exist for
    humanity right right we’ve gotten rid
    again the environmental movement is a
    really interesting example
    because we passed all sorts of laws we got rid of lead we’ve changed
    from you know some of our pesticides um
    you know we’re slow on some of these things
    and corporate interests and asymmetric power of large corporations
    you know which i want to say markets and capitals are great
    is that when you have asymmetric power for predatory systems
    that that cause harm they’re not going to uh terminate themselves
    they have to be bound in by the public by culture by by the state and um
    we just have to point to the
    examples where we’ve done that
    and in this case i think the prob
    the problem is that how much of our stock market
    is built on the back of like five companies generating a huge amount of wealth
    so this is similar i don’t mean to make this example but um
    there’s a great book by um adam hokeshield
    called bury the chains which is about
    the british abolition of slavery
    in which he talks about how for the
    british empire like if you think about it when when we collectively wake up and
    say this is an abhorrent practice that has to end but then at that time in the 17 1800s
    in britain slavery was what powered the
    entire economy it was free labor
    for you know huge percentage of the
    economy so if you say we can’t do this anymore we have to stop this
    how do you decouple when your entire economy is based on slavery right
    and the book is actually inspiring
    because it tracks a collective movement that was through
    networked all these different groups the quakers uh
    in the u.s the uh
    people testifying before parliament
    the former slaves who did first-hand accounts
    the graphics and art of all the people had never seen what it looked like on a slave ship
    and so by making the invisible visceral and showing just how abhorrent this stuff was
    through a period of about 60 to 70 years the british empire had to drop their gdp by 2 every year
    for 60 years and willing to do that to get off of slavery
    now i’m not making a moral equivalent
    i want to be really clear for everybody taking things out of context um
    but just that it’s possible for us to do something
    that isn’t just in the interest of economic growth and i think that’s the real challenge
    that’s actually something that should be on the agenda
    which is how do we one of the major tensions is economic growth
    you know being in conflict with dealing
    with some with many of our problems
    whether it’s some of the environmental issues or you know with some of the technology
    issues we’re talking about right now
    artificial intelligence is something
    that people are terrified of as an
    existential threat they think of it as
    one day you’re going to turn something
    on and it’s going to be sentient
    it’s going to be able to create other
    forms of artificial intelligence that
    are exponentially more powerful than the
    one that we created
    and that will have unleashed this beast
    that we cannot control
    what my concern is with all this yeah
    that’s my concern my concern is that this this is a a slow acceptance of drowning
    yeah that’s like a slow we’re okay i’m only up to my knees oh it’s fine
    it’s just uh
    my waist high it could be boiling water exactly exactly it seems like
    this is like humans have to fight back to reclaim our autonomy and free will from
    the machines i mean
    one clear okay neo it’s very much
    the matrix and one of my favorite lines
    is actually when the oracle says to neo
    and don’t worry about the vase and he
    says what face and he knocks it over
    that face and so it’s like she’s the ai
    who sees so many moves ahead in the chess board she can say something which will cause
    him to do the thing that verifies the
    thing that she predicted what happened
    yeah that’s what ai is doing now except
    it’s pointed at our nervous system
    and figuring out the perfect thing to dangle in front of our dopamine system
    and get the thing to happen which
    instead of knocking off the vases to be
    outraged at the other political side and
    be fully certain that you’re right even
    though it’s just a machine that’s
    calculating BLEEPED that’s going to make you you know do the thing when you’re
    concerned about this how much time do
    you spend thinking about simulation theory
    the simulation yeah
    the idea that it if not currently one day there will be a simulation that’s indiscernible
    yeah from regular reality and it seems we’re on that path
    i don’t know if you mess around with vr at all but well
    this is the point about you know the virtual chat bots
    out competing for exactly the technology you know
    i mean that’s what’s happening is that reality is getting more and more virtual right
    because we interact with a virtual news system
    that’s all this sort of click-bait economy outrage machine
    that’s already a virtual political environment that then translates into real world action then
    becomes real and that’s the weird feedback go back to 1990 whatever it was
    when the internet became mainstream or at least started becoming mainstream
    and then the small amount of time that
    it took the 20 plus years to get to where we are now
    and then think what what about the virtual world and once this becomes something that’s
    has the same sort of rate of growth that
    the internet has experienced or that
    we’ve experienced through the internet
    i mean we’re looking at like 20 years
    from now being unrecognizable
    yeah we’re looking at i mean it’s it
    almost seems like that
    is what life does the same way bees create bee hives you know a caterpillar doesn’t
    know what the BLEEPED going on when it
    gets into that cocoon but it’s becoming a butterfly we seem to be a thing
    that creates newer and better
    objects correct more effective but we have to realize ai is not conscious and won’t be
    conscious the way we are and so
    many people think that but is consciousness essential i think so to us
    i don’t know essentially we’re the only
    ones who have it no i don’t know that
    no theory but there might be more yeah
    things that have consciousness but
    is it is it essential i mean it’s the to
    the extent that choice
    exists it would exist through some kind of consciousness and this choice is choice essential
    it’s essential to us as we know it like
    as life as we know it
    but my worry is that we’re in essential that like we we’re thinking now like
    single-celled organisms being like hey i
    don’t want to
    gang up with a bunch of other people and
    become an object that can walk
    i like being a single cell organism this
    is a lot of fun i mean i hear you saying
    you know are we a bootloader for the ai that then runs that’s eli’s perspective i mean i think
    this is a really dangerous way to think
    i mean we have to
    yeah so are we then dangerous for us yeah i mean what if the next version of the life is
    the next version being run by machines
    that have no values that don’t care that
    don’t have choice and are just
    maximizing for things that were
    programmed in by our little miniature brains anyway but they don’t cry they don’t commit
    suicide but then consciousness and life dies that could be the future i think this is
    the last chance to try to snap out of that and is it important in the eyes of the
    universe that we do that i don’t know it
    feels important how does it feel to you
    it feels important but i
    i’m i’m a monkey you know the monkey’s like i’m staying in this tree man you guys
    are out of your BLEEPED mind i mean this
    is the weird paradox of being human is
    that again we have these lower level
    emotions we care about social approval
    we can’t not care at the same time like i said there’s this weird proposition here
    we’re the only species that if this were
    to happen to us
    we would have the self-awareness to even
    know that it was happening
    right like we can consent like this
    two-hour interview we can conceptualize
    that this this thing has happened to us
    right that we have built this matrix
    this external object which has like ai
    and supercomputers and voodoo doll
    versions of each of us
    and it has perfectly figured out how to
    predictably move each of us in this matrix
    let me propose this to you
    we are what we are now human beings homo sapiens in 2020.
    we we are this thing that uh
    if you believe in evolution i’m
    pretty sure you do
    we’ve evolved over the course of
    millions of years to become who we are right now should we stop right here are we done no
    right we should keep it evolving
    what does it look like if we go ahead
    just forget about social media
    what would you like us to be
    in a thousand years or a hundred thousand years
    or five hundred thousand years you certainly wouldn’t want us
    to be what we are right now right
    no one would no i mean i think this is
    what visions of star trek and things
    like that we’re trying to ask right like hey let’s imagine humans do make it and we
    become the most enlightened we can be
    and we actually somehow make peace with
    these other you know alien tribes
    and we figure out you know space travel
    and all of that i mean actually a good heuristic that i think
    people can ask is on an enlightened
    planet where we did figure this out
    what would that have looked like isn’t
    it always weird that those movies
    it’s people are just people but they’re
    in some weird future but they haven’t
    really changed that much
    right i mean and which is to say that
    the fundamental way that we work is
    just unchanging but there are such
    things as more wise societies more
    sustainable societies more peaceful or harmonious societies ultimately biologically
    we have to evolve as well but our version of like the best version
    is probably the gray aliens
    right maybe so that’s the ultimate
    future i mean we’re going to get into
    gene editing and becoming more
    perfect perfect on the sense of you know that but uh
    we’re going to start optimizing for
    what are the outcomes that we value i
    think the question is how do we actually
    come up with brand new values
    that are wiser than we’ve ever thought
    of before that actually are able to
    transcend the win lose games that lead
    to omni lose lose that everyone loses
    if we keep playing the win lose game at
    greater and greater scales
    i like you have a vested interest in the
    biological existence of human beings
    i think people are pretty cool yeah i
    love being around them i enjoy talking to you today my fear is that we are
    we’re we’re a model t right you know and
    there’s there’s no sense in making those
    BLEEPED things anymore the brakes are terrible they smell like BLEEPED when you drive them
    they don’t go very fast
    we need a better version you know the funny thing is god there’s some quote by someone i
    think like i wish i could remember it
    it’s something about how much would be solved
    if we were at peace with ourselves
    like if we were able to just be okay with nothing
    like just being okay with living and breathing
    i don’t mean to be you know playing the woo new age card i just genuinely mean
    how much of our lives is just running away from
    you know anxiety and discomfort and aversion
    it is but you know in that sense
    some of the most satisfied and happy people
    are people that live a subsistence living
    that have these subsistence existences in the middle of nowhere
    just chopping trees and catching fish right
    and more connection probably yeah authentic than something else i think that’s
    probably resonates biologically too
    because of the history of human
    beings living like that is just
    so much longer and greater totally and i
    think that those are more sustainable societies we can never obtain peace in the outer
    world until we make
    peace with ourselves dalai lama yeah but
    i don’t buy that guy
    you know that guy he’s uh
    he’s an interesting case i was thinking there was a different
    slightly different quote but actually
    there’s one quote that i would love to
    if it’s possible one of the reasons why
    i don’t buy him he’s just
    chosen they just chose that guy yeah
    also he doesn’t have sex wait how how um
    yeah how much can you be enjoying
    life if that’s not not a party come on bro you wear the same outfit every day the
    BLEEPED out of here with your orange robes
    can i there’s a there’s a really um
    important quote that i i think would
    really be good to share
    uh it’s from the book have you read
    amusing ourselves death by neil postman no from 1982 no um
    so especially when we get into big tech and
    we talk about censorship a lot and we talk about orwell um
    he has this really wonderful opening to this book it was written in 1982 it literally
    predicts everything that’s going on now
    i frankly think that
    i’m adding nothing and it’s really just
    neil postman called it all in 1982.
    uh he had this great opening it says
    um let’s see we’re all looking out for
    you know 1984 when the year came and the prophecy didn’t
    thoughtful americans sang softly in
    praise of themselves the roots of
    liberal democracy had held
    this is like we made it through the 1984 gap wherever else the terror had happened
    we at least had not been visited by orwellian nightmares but we had
    forgotten that alongside orwell’s dark vision there was another slightly older
    slightly less well-known
    equally chilling vision of aldous
    huxley’s brave new world
    contrary to common belief even among the educated
    huxley and orwell did not prophecy the same thing
    orwell warns that we will become overwhelmed overcome by an externally imposed oppression but
    in huxley’s vision
    no big brother is required to deprive
    people of their autonomy maturity or history as he saw it
    people will come to love their oppression to adore the technologies that undo
    their capacities to think
    what orwell feared were those who would ban books what huxley feared was that there would
    be no reason to ban a book
    for there would be no one who wanted to
    read one orwell feared those who would
    deprive us of information
    huxley feared those who would give us so
    much that we would be reduced to passivity and egoism
    orwell feared the truth would be concealed from us
    huxley feared the truth would be drowned in a sea of irrelevance
    orwell feared we would become a captive
    culture but huxley feared we would become a trivial culture preoccupied with some
    equivalent of the feelis
    and the orgy porgy and the centrifugal
    bumble puppy don’t know what that means
    as huxley remarked in brave new world
    revisited the civil libertarians
    and rationalists who are ever on the alert to oppose tyranny failed to take into account
    man’s almost infinite appetite for distractions lastly in 1984 orwell added people are
    all people are controlled by inflicting pain
    in brave new world they are controlled by inflicting pleasure in short or well
    feared that what we fear will ruin us
    huxley fear that what we desire will ruin us
    holy BLEEPED
    isn’t that good
    that’s that’s the best way to end this god damn
    but again if we can become aware that this is what’s happened
    we’re the only species with the capacity
    to see that our own psychology our own emotions
    our own paleolithic evolutionary system has been hijacked
    i like that you’re optimism is probably the only way to live in a meat suit body and keep going
    otherwise it certainly helps yeah it certainly helps
    thank you very much for being here man
    i really enjoy this even though i’m really depressed now
    i really don’t want you to be depressed
    i really hope people you know
    i’m kidding we’re not
    we really want to build a movement and and uh
    you know we’re just
    i wish i could give people more
    resources we do have a podcast um
    called undivided attention
    and we’re trying to build a movement at humanetech.com
    but well listen any new revelations or new developments
    that you have i’d be more than happy to have you on again
    we’ll talk about them and send them to me
    and i’ll put them on social media and whatever you need
    awesome i’m here to help
    awesome man
    great great to be here resist yeah
    grizzly together humanity resist humanity
    we’re in this together
    thank you tristan
    i really really appreciate it
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